pop

[skyanin]

Since the Zooropa thread in this forum started to switch over to looking at Pop, some of us figured we might as well make a proper thread.
I figure going through album song by song and looking at them indiviually as well as how they fit within the album, and even within U2's career would be the best way, but whatever. If you have a thought about anything Pop related, please post.

Discotheque seems to be a pretty simple song, lyrically, and seems to be about choosing mr/mrs right now instead of the mr/mrs right.

The opening fade in of sound even sounds like a search: someone swinging their head one way, and then another, "looking for the one", getting closer and closer.

All the initial lines suggest looking for love, as something you can't capture. "chewing bubblegum" is a brilliant metaphor (I think) for a casual fling that tastes oh so sugary sweet at the start, but then loses its flavor and appeal and if continued, only becomes mechanical. You either keep chewing your boring wad, or spit out the gum and get a fresh piece.

The sound reflects clubbing, something you can sway to, like, oh I don't know, a disco.
A place where you go and if you can't find your ideal mate, "you take what you can get".

The thing I really like about this song lyrically (cause aside from the "chewing bubblegum" and "song you hear in your head" metaphors, I don't think there's a whole lot happening), is the fact that it doesn't criticise or judge people for giving in to "tonight, tonight, tonight".

uhh, so those are my initial thoughts. What are your takes on this song?

 

[Alisaura]

Hehe, I was getting around to it, honestly...

Thanks for starting this up Skyanin!
I spent half of the other night playing Discotheque over and over again trying to turn something deep and meaningful out of it... with little success! And you're right, it's not exactly inspired, lyrically...

I guess one of the first things to say about Pop is that it doesn't seem to have such a coherent narrative theme as Zooropa does. It's harder to tie together, and it's quite schizophrenic, really... Then again maybe I just haven't had it long enough. But for now... *pulls out her notes*
*ahem* "reproductive behaviour - the consequences of anisogamy in animals..." Oops, that's the biology notes, sorry!

But seriously folks...
The fade-in... album-starting U2 tradition of the 90s? Soften the shock factor? If I'd been around in U2 fan terms in '97 and heard this on the radio I'd have been a wee bit stunned... or maybe not.
Some things that need to be answered to figure out what Bono's talking about...
Who is "you"?
What is "it"? (Any Faith No More fans?)
From what I hear people saying around here, it seems commonly accepted that "you" is the music-listening mass public - particularly the fans of flash-in-the-pan techno groups and boy bands and the like. And that "it" may be REAL music with real soul, something they probably know exists on some level but are fooling themselves into thinking they already have it... but they don't. The bubblegum reference (which I agree is a perfect analogy) reinforces this...
I think it can be interpreted as the character's (Bono's?) desire to wake the music world up and show them what it's really all about... he starts off berating, admonishing... but who?
"You reach, but you can't grab it"... the fans reaching for real music but finding only rubbish? Or people like him, reaching for a way to reach the hearts and brains of music fans who are still stuck in the bubblegum?
(Maybe I'm reaching too far trying to interpret this...

)
Then we're told to "Let go, let's go, Discotheque"... Bono seems to be saying 'f#ck it, I give up, let's play that funky music and not worry about thinking...' But unbeknownst to the bubblegum chewers (but knownst to us), the attack is now coming from within, on their own turf... U2 has moved the battle into the inner sanctum of the disco/club!
Near the end, the heavy back beat dies down a little, and the melody comes through... a break in the crap-music clouds? "You take what you can get" etc... fairly self explanatory (and Skyanin's been there anyway!)... "but tonight, tonight, tonight..." but tonight we're going to make the best of what we have got... tonight we're just going to let it go, go with it, surrender... give in.. and have some FUN...
BOOM CHA! BOOM CHA! DISCOTHEQUE! Everyone's equal on the dance floor...

Shite, how long-winded was that...

[This message has been edited by Alisaura (edited 10-20-2000).]

 

[AchtungSteve]

I have to disagree. Remember that faith in God is a gift, "You Can't Earn It." Bono interchanges Faith, Love, and Hope quite often.

We should be searching for something more, and some of us do. But Discoteque is about those who choose to live for the moment, no matter what the consequences. The same theme runs through Last Night on Earth.

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

AchtungSteve, you said it very nicely. I completely agree with you.

Discotheque is definately about living for the moment -- about the appeal of the trash that's out there... about the appeal of getting on the dancefloor and cuttin' loose!

And I agree with everyone -- "Chewing bubblegum" is a great metaphor. The flavor in this "living for the moment" is not everlasting -- sooner or later you will be left with much to be desired. I think Discotheque has a simple meaning behind it--but one that can be built upon. I think it deals with the pleasures of the flesh-- but the concepts of faith, love, hope, etc. enter the picture.. because those are the lasting qualities -- the ones that will not leave you with a flavorless wad of gum in the end

 

[skyanin]

Originally posted by Alisaura:

I guess one of the first things to say about Pop is that it doesn't seem to have such a coherent narrative theme as Zooropa does. It's harder to tie together, and it's quite schizophrenic, really...

(I'm trying to break the quotes apart- I may be successful or this will look really weird

)
Yeah, the only thing that really ties Pop together for me are the sounds. The music in Zooropa always sounds dark to me, while the music in Pop sounds lighter, both regardless of subject matter. I don't know if there is such a thing as "light" notes (as in color) vs "dark" ones, or if I just force that deciding factor on the songs...

The fade-in... album-starting U2 tradition of the 90s? Soften the shock factor?

nahh. They want to shock people! Look at the choice of the Fly as first single for AB and then Numb for Zoo. And JT had the fade in for Streets... !!

Some things that need to be answered to figure out what Bono's talking about...
Who is "you"?
What is "it"? (Any Faith No More fans?)

I still think you is us. We're the ones out at clubs looking for "it" ("LOVE"). A connection with another person. If it was about music, as you've suggested, Alisaura, it would totally add depth to this song, but I don't see it that way (yet).

AchtungSteve, you think the song is about looking for a connection with God? But why set it in a disco/club (assumption on my part), and are you suggesting that the "you" in this song are replacing God/faith with sex? The song feels almost too flippant and trivial to be taking the meaning to that level. I don't know. Where else do you see that interpretation in the lyrics?


[This message has been edited by skyanin (edited 10-21-2000).]

 

[zoomerang II]

How good is gone? I am still amazed by the musical diversity in just one song. And have you noticed on the hasta version Bono?s vocal range is even greater.

I have just concluded that I totally agree with the band and this rubbish about ATYCLB sounding like a return to the distant past. To me the new album is that which was originally spoken of a year or so ago ? as a follow up to, or progression from, Pop. In fact the more I think about it, the themes, ideas and even sounds in ATYCLB naturally evolve from Pop.

You needed to get somewhere so badly
You had to lose yourself along the way
You change a name but that?s okay?its necessary
And what you leave behind you don?t miss anyway

If that isn?t a lyrical precursor to where we are now, then I don?t know what is.

IMO Gone, perhaps more than any other song, is the song of the true U2 fan, and I would like to think that the band themselves saw this and developed ATYCLB from one of Pop?s highlights.

And while I am on my soapbox I wouldn?t be unhappy if the band only ever played song?s from their most recent two or three recorded albums for the rest of the career (which they obviously did early in their days, so why not now). That way I would now they would keep progressing on their merits, rather than resting on their laurels. (I am not one for infinite greatest hits tours?

)

Going, going?I?m not gone (Bono coughs up a lung). Gone is so great.

 

[skyanin]

Originally posted by Achtung_Bebe:

I think Discotheque depicts someone out looking for "it"--but what they really need is an everlasting filler... which won't be found on the dancefloor.

True, I agree with you there, except I think that the "everlasting filler" is "it". They're looking for the "everlasting filler" and can't find it that night, but there is a person nearby who could be fun for now until the next time they go searching for "it".
I think I only draw the line when faith and God enter the picture as being the "everlasting filler." I think "the song that you hear in your head" is your ideal other, not some higher power, which is what got from AchtungSteve's response (I may have interpreted it incorrectly). I guess either interpretation is valid, but the choices in words and the tone of the song just don't suggest faith to me.

Zoomerang II, I agree, the Hasta la Vista version of Gone is amazing. I especially like Edge's backing vocals. I think the lyrics do speak out to a true U2 fan, like you said. The people who stuck with them and didn't want them to do the same old thing over and over, and didn't dismiss them for trying out "new sounds, new colors, you know."
But as just simple audio pleasure, Gone doesn't grab me as much as the other songs on this album. I read that it was originally full of rage, and I wonder if that would have strengthened the song or overshadowed it and made it weaker.

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

The song feels almost too flippant and trivial to be taking the meaning to that level.

It does doesn't it skyanin? And I think that was intentional... Pop is full of meaningfull lyrics in disguise. I think Discotheque depicts someone out looking for "it"--but what they really need is an everlasting filler... which won't be found on the dancefloor. So, looking at it that way, I can clearly see where AchtungSteve is coming from. Any everlasting trait could be entering the picture here, IMO.

 

[Alisaura]

I knew I didn't know Discotheque enough to write that...

I think the "living for the moment" thing is closer than my stumbling around... dunno about the religion thing at all.
I guess it could be generalised to being about reaching for some unattainable thing... or something that's hard to reach anyway, and maybe ... oh I don't know.
"The song you hear in your head" I thought was a great metaphor for someone who's haunting your thoughts whether you want them to or not, like when you get a song stuck in your head and it won't get out...

Gone is an awesome song... Edge's guitar blinds us with the dizzying light of fame and celebrity... the live version is brilliant... *badly wants to see the PopMart video* It feels like the culmination of all the extremes of their career as stars... I'll expound at more length later... my notes are upstairs.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on Discotheque... it makes more sense now

 

[skyanin]

But as just simple audio pleasure, Gone doesn't grab me as much as the other songs on this album. I read that it was originally full of rage, and I wonder if that would have strengthened the song or overshadowed it and made it weaker. [/B]

since no one answered me, I'm gonna answer myself: it probably would have made the song weaker since the point of the song seems to be about being "gone" and so far away from the people who try to hold you in one play that they don't matter. If the song was full of rage, then those people would have gotten to them, and made them care enough to waste energy screaming about it. Instead, the sound in this song seems like they're just drifting away.

Does anyone want to start a discussion about the next track, Do You Feel Loved ?

 

[Alisaura]

I am hereby rescuing and resucsitating the Pop thread.

I don't have time to say much now, but regarding DYFL, besides how cool the song itself is (I LOVE the lines, "With my fingers as you want them/With my nails under your hide/With my teeth at your back/And my tongue to tell you the sweetest lies"), I think it's a darn good question.
Do YOU feel loved?
Exactly how DOES that feel? Can you feel loved if you don't feel love in return? What's the difference? Is it a bit mystical to think we can feel someone else's love for us? What exactly is Bono saying just before the "pushing & shoving/from the belley of a woman"?
Anyway, more later...

 

[U24me]

I wanted to bring up a few things about POP, so thanks for starting the thread. First, during the concert from Mexico City, I am almost positive Bono says "Critics...going, going, but we're not gone!" as they start to jam into the song.

But in general, when I first heard POP, I wanted to like the songs so much. It was hard though. AB was a totally different direction for U2, and I loved it. Zooropa was just like a playful EP that still grabbed my attention. But POP just didn't do it for me. That is, until I heard it live in concert. My friends and I were blown away, as usual (about my 10th concert). Forget the props and lemons, the music was great. Even the music from POP. Last night on earth was great live. Please sent chills down my spine. Accoustical Staring at the Sun was fantastic.

I could go on, but my point is this. U2, IMO, was trying too hard not to sound like themselves. They were certainly exploring new ground no matter how you look at it, but I think if they had mixed in U2's signature sounds with their exploration into new territory, POP would have been received much better. The whole irony/in your face smack on commercialism was being stretched a bit to far as well.

Anyway, I don't view ATYCLB as a complete return to roots. I have played it in between their other albums, and there is a bit of all of them tied into this one. A few months will not tell the tale, but I think ATYCLB will stand the test of time. POP might, but the same critics that raved about the album for "breaking new ground" in 1997 are now slamming it as they welcome in ATYCLB for going back to basics. I listen very little to what any of them have to say.

 

[Alisaura]

I refuse to let this thread die!!
You're so right, U24me, critics are largely well worth ignoring as far as I'm concerned. How come they get paid to spout what is after all, merely their own opinion and nothing more? *shrug*
Anyway... I haven't been able to get enough of Pop recently, especially having seen the Popmart video recently for the first time, and rediscovering that unbelievably awesome live version of Last Night on Earth on the BD single... Wow! The bit after the verses finished rocks SO much, it's incredible. Love it!!

maybe that's why they released that as a single instead of Gone, though I prefer Gone to LNOE on the actual album. Ho hum.
Another little thing... in Wake Up Dead Man, with the lines
Jesus, were you just around the corner?
Did You think to try and warn her?
Or were you working on something new?
am I the only one who gets reminded of the chick in LNOE? Or am I going bananas more quickly than I thought?

 

[Salome]

I agree with all of you about the many wonderfull elements (both musical and lyrical) that can be found in Pop.
Still the album lacks an overall feel.
It's the only U2 album that doesn't feel like an album.
More like 4 ep's thrown together.
It's all just a bit too incoherent for me.
I guess it's diversity can be appealing to other people, but it just doesn't work to well with me.
Still, I think Pop is an enjoyable album (with some glimmers of greatness) to listen to now and again.

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[BEAL]

Pop is a great album. In every sense. No, it wasn't finished, but it has a fresh aspect to it because of rushing it. U2 has no reason to apologize for it.

It's also a great lyric album. Last Concept album U2 has done. I remember Bono saying somewhere that the album starts off like a party (first 3 songs) then gets really really heavy. I think that's kind of where Bono's mind was at the time.

There is a lyric "lookin for the baby jesus under the trash". I think that's the defining lyric of this album. Trying to find God among the glitter and trash. You know, Jesus was born in shit and straw. So who's to say you can't find him among the trashier things (drugs, sex, dance clubs...what a combination

). I don't know if any of the members actually did any of these things, but I think they are intriged by it. I really think the lyrics on this new album, where transformed from Pop. They found out, hey, things really are messed up, I think Bono and the rest of the band realized, hey, you know what, it doesnt really matter, there is only so much you can do. What is the point of life, to be happy. If you have happiness, you have it all.

Sorry to get off onto the new album, but without Pop, ATYCLB would have been a really different record. In Pop, U2 were looking for God, they had tried the squeaky clean way (80's), then they went through the back door (90's). And you know what, I think they may have found him. I personally think Bono found peace within himself. Instead of looking for God in all the other places, he finally found Him inside of himself, and his family. Maybe not so much God himself, but he found what life really means. Family, and music. He's no longer running (for now), he's content with what he has seen and done.

I dunno, but Pop was an important record. And a great record.

 

[christiana]

Originally posted by Salome:
I agree with all of you about the many wonderfull elements (both musical and lyrical) that can be found in Pop.
Still the album lacks an overall feel.
It's the only U2 album that doesn't feel like an album.
More like 4 ep's thrown together.
It's all just a bit too incoherent for me.
I guess it's diversity can be appealing to other people, but it just doesn't work to well with me.
Still, I think Pop is an enjoyable album (with some glimmers of greatness) to listen to now and again.

I agree with you Salome. I found the songs are better if you listen to them seperately.

And about the lyrics...I think besides Zooropa, Pop has the deepest lyrics meanings among all of their albums. I don't know will you agree with me, but that just what i thought...


------------------
Anna
xxx

 

[skyanin]

I think Pop works together as an album. When you listen to it in sequence, it does have a flow from the initial, loud, in your face Discoteque all the way to the final call in Wake Up Dead Man. I think there are probs with individual songs, but as an A-B album, I think it fits.
I agree that there are some deep lyrics here, christiana, but most are hidden by a layer of superficiality so it takes some digging.
Thanks for keeping this thread alive, Alisaura! I'm in a land far far away so it's hard to get to a computer.

 

[Alisaura]

You're very welcome Skyanin! I can't get to a comp as often as I'd like either.
Pop is kind of all over the place... maybe that reflects also the channel-hopping, short attention span culture that has taken over in the last decade or so. I like the contrasts, which is something U2 also played with on Zooropa (see other thread). And it does mean you can play the tracks in pretty much any order, but the last 3 are as perfect a trio as any other bunch of songs, as someone pointed out on the Zooropa thread.
I used to skip Miami and Playboy Mansion a lot, and going straight from Gone to Velvet Dress was a stunning contrast. Try it sometime.

I can't think of Mofo in quite the same "party" light as Discotheque and Do You Feel Loved, since I realised what the lyrics were mostly referring to (Bono's mother). That screaming of Edge's guitar took on a distictly desperate, anguished quality, and for me, Mofo is one of the most depressing songs of theirs I know. How many other songs with such a funky dance beat have I cried to? Umm... none.
Well, that's my installment for now... so happy to see the little flaming folder.

 

[U24me]

Well, Ali, since you want to keep this thread alive, I'll post again. Skipping Playboy Mansion? Give it a listen. It's my favorite song on the album, as much for the lyrics as for it's uniqueness. It's a mood song, for sure, but I like it.

 

[Alisaura]

Thanks, U24me!

Please note past tense on my skipping habits... I used to, but don't really anymore... I definately have to be in the right mood for it. Which I guess is what you meant by a mood song... unless I'm just confused.

 

[skyanin]

The screaming of Edge's guitar right before the "duties" part of the song (soothe me mother, rule me father, ect) is my favorite part of any song (well, when Bono screams out "The Edge" in Pride off of R&H is very cool too). I used to hate watching Bono suck his thumb during the Popmart video because it seemed to trivialize the song, but I guess that's the point: it's just rock n roll.

 

[Alisaura]

I see your point... but I guess the thumb-sucking, facetious or not, is a demonstration of vulnerability and all that... I've only seen the video once, mind you, and I thought the whole thing was a bit odd...

 

[Acrobat54321]

Gone is superb but it amazes me how some critics passed Pop off as messy and lacking structure. There are so many hidden details in Pop like on Wake Up Dead Man and IYWTVD (which I think is the most underated song on Pop)

 

[The Edge_Pizza]

I am kind of hurt(not really though) that the band has come out saying that Pop was a mistake...that they weren't finished. I don't agree with that.

Yes some of the songs weren't "finished". but that's what was so fresh about Pop. You basically got something that really wasn't too overproduced. Now, of course, there are a lot of effects, but that was what they were looking for on this album. Different ways, or methods to help songs take off.

Wake Up is pure genius, and I personally think it's Larrys finest moment on a record. Gone is a guitar achievement. I've never heard anything like that.

I think U2 were/are trying to win back some of their fans by saying what they have about Pop. I know deep down inside they love this record, and it was the only record they could make at that time.

------------------
Joey Joe Joe Junior Schoobaloob

 

[skyanin]

Originally posted by Alisaura:
I see your point... but I guess the thumb-sucking, facetious or not, is a demonstration of vulnerability and all that... I've only seen the video once, mind you, and I thought the whole thing was a bit odd...

In the video, he seems to be making fun of his obsession with his mother, not trying to show vulnerability. His face looks like he's having fun with it, and I like to think of Mofo as being a serious song.

 

[zoomerang II]

what is God's Glue?

 

[Achtung_Bebe]

"stuck together with God's glue" is the title of an album by the Irish group "Something Happens". I read somewhere that this c.d. was laying around in the studio, caught Bono's eye, and he threw it in the lyrics for "Staring At the Sun". I saw this c.d. in a used store for $2 and just had to get it because of the U2 connection

I personally think the term God's glue refers to the connection everything shares due to its origin through Christ.

 

[Alisaura]

I just recently read The Satanic Verses... and you can so tell that Bono at least was reading Rushdie when they were making Pop... I had to check the publication date to find out which one came first (Satanic Verses came out '87 I think). Phrases like "bubblegum music" and "suit of lights" are in there, and "God-shaped hole" is apparently also a favourite phrase of Rushdie's.
Hope I haven't mentioned this all ready, just felt like sharing. Can't wait to read The Ground Beneath Her Feet...

 

[Incognito]

Bono tried to find himself in this album- kinda what I'm trying to do now.

[This message has been edited by Incognito (edited 02-05-2001).]

 

[slippin]

the ground beneath her feet (book) is absolute twaddle, and is not really worth the effort.

however the song is mega cool, and makes a perfect extra track at the end of ATYCLB - theve never had such a happy ending to any of there albums