Peace On Earth lyric

[StrangerTides]

I guess this could go under Musical Journey, but... well, I thought maybe it would be safer to put it here.

Regarding this line from Peace On Earth:

"Their lives are bigger than / Any big idea"

I completely agree with this line, and I think it's the key line in this great song. So I want to ask - what do you guys think is the "big idea" being referred to? I know the song is about the bombing in Omagh, and I admit I am not very familiar with the conflict, but isn't it an issue of religious differences?

See, I'm interpreting the "big idea" to be Christianity itself - that is, one shouldn't use one's religious beliefs as justification for violent acts.

But having said that (and being agnostic myself), wouldn't a Christian really have to disagree, and say that individual lives are not, in fact, more important than the core beliefs of Christianity? If the "big idea" is that Jesus died for the sins of all of humanity and rose again after overcoming them, isn't that actually "bigger" than the mortal lives of individuals? Is this possibly the justification used by the "Real IRA" and other violent groups for their acts? And if so, how exactly are they misinterpreting Christian beliefs to arrive at this justification?

I hope this is seen as an honest philosophical question, and not an attempt to stir up a religious debate - I'm really just curious what the folks here think about this. I'm new to the forum, as you can see, so admins, if this topic is not acceptable, by all means accept my apology and delete away!

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Interesting question, StrangerTides!

Personally I wouldn't interpret the "big idea" in that lyric as being about Christianity, or any other religion. I don't think the conflict in the North of Ireland is really a religious conflict, so I think it's unlikely that acts of violence in that country (whether Unionist or Republican) are motivated by religious conviction. (I could get into what I do think the conflict is about, but that'd be another post entirely.)

 

[FizzingWhizzbees]

Sorry, posted before I'd finished what I was going to say.

I wanted to add that I think the question of whether Christianity is "bigger" than individuals is interesting. In the one sense, you could say that it is because if Christianity is the truth then it is so amazing that it is "bigger" than any individual life. However, you could argue that what is "big" about Christianity is that it transforms people's lives...so...that would mean something different. I'm really not good at trying to articulate anything about religion, so I should probably leave this subject alone and let some people who are lots smarter than me answer your question. ;-)

 

[oktobergirl]

I always thought the line and the reference to "big idea" was a direct reference to the act of terrorism and any school of thought that those who supported it subscribed to.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Here's an interesting thought...

from Kite, we have "..in a time when NEW MEDIA was the big idea..."

then, on the same album from Peace on Earth, we have "tehir livees are bigger than any big idea..."

hmmm...so are their lives bigger than New Media? I don't think that's what it means, of course, but I thought it was interesting, nonetheless

 

[StrangerTides]

FW, yeah, your second post is what I was getting at. Of course if I'm wrong that the big idea has anything to do with religion, I guess that kind of makes the question irrelavent.

80sU2isBest, interesting connection, but as you imply, that's probably a different big idea.

oktobergirl, somehow I don't think the big idea could be terrorism or the violent act itself - even terrorists would tell you that their methods are just a means to an end. Seems to me that the real end, whatever it is they're trying to achieve, would be centered on some sort of lofty idea.

 

[Scarletwine]

I've always taken "the big idea" to be a political objective. Whether that is the result of religious beliefs, or other ideologies.

IMO this fits in perfectly with Omagh, that their lives were bigger than whatever political objective caused the act. Same can be said for war for political objectives.

 

[pax]

This is a tough one, but I think what I'm going to do is leave this in FYM for a day or two because it does verge on being an FYM-ish topic. Besides, people aren't fighting over it, which is good.

I'll also copy the thread to IAMJ, and then in a day or two I'll take this one to IAMJ and merge the 2.

Hope that makes everyone happy.

 

[MixingBliss]

I think you guys have nailed it. The "big idea" is a political objective, a so-called religious destiny, or any other motivation that would cause someone--misguidedly--to reduce the value of life.

Interestingly, Bono lately has been using "big idea" and "great idea" as a sort of buzz phrase lately, which is why it probably showed up in two songs on "All That." But naturally the usage shifts depending on what he's talking about:

In Bono's New Year's Message for Jubilee 2000, he refers the siginificance of the turn of the millennium being so big, "it needs a big idea to fill it." He uses the phrase four times in the letter.

In an interview with Dave Fanning: "On ['All That You Can't Leave Behind'] there is no big idea, no big concept, its just 11 reasons to leave home."

When he accepted the Humanitarian Laureate Award from the Simon Wiesenthal Center last year, he said:
?A great idea is like a melody,? he said. ?The United States is a great idea. New York is a great idea. Simon Wiesenthal and seeking justice is a great idea.?

He's consistently going around talking about how "America is a great idea," or "more than just a great idea." (World Economic Forum; Harvard speech.)

But, whatever; we all use the phrase "big idea" or "great idea" in our everyday speech, right? Probably a few times a day.
On the other hand, these are attentively crafted public statements here, so my guess is he's latched onto the phrase as a verbal shorthand for "larger concept" or "higher purpose."

From a recent BBC interview:
"The most exciting dreams for me are the waking dreams, you know, the ones that you have when you're walking down the
street, and you get a big idea in your head, and you figure out a way of trying to realize that idea. They're the best ones. Again, some of the political work we've done over the while had felt like waking dreams. And you have to then make this abstract idea you've got into concrete. I really like that. I don't believe in wishful thinking. You know, "Imagine," that John Lennon song, it's my least favorite of his songs. And he's the man for me, but it's like I don't believe that imagining is enough. First, you have to imagine, but then you have to build it, and with concrete, and
scaffolding, and the sort of unromantic aspect is to me now more interesting than it was, say, when I was younger, and I thought just having the dream was enough."

 

[U2girl]

I also connect the "big idea" with either religious or political fanaticism (which claims the lives for a "higher purpose" yet life itself should be an "idea" if you will that should never be given away), as for the "new media" in Kite I think Bono is referring to internet.

 

[StrangerTides]

Good comments, MixingBliss and U2girl.

MB, I liked your survey of Bono's use of the term! I notice in all the cases you mention, though, it's used in a positive sense, as opposed to in POE where it's used as "an end that does not justify the means".

So nobody thinks it's a reference to Christian ideas, huh? That's just as well, I guess - I just thought with the other overtly religious text in this song, this might be another insight into Bono's thinking on religion, sort of saying "I'll go along with Christianity up to a point, but once you reduce the value of human life in the name of a higher purpose, that's where I get off." The problem being that by following the letter of the doctrine, you could logically come to the conclusion that the higher purpose is indeed more important than human life.