Lay down your guns, all your K-Marters, all you Americans

[Hallucination]

The only serious problems Michael Moore sheds light on are dishonesty and obesity.

Not true. Well I gues that depends if you consider half truths dishonest or half honest. He is pretty heavy though.

 

[-macphisto-]

The only serious problems Michael Moore sheds light on are dishonesty and obesity.

I agree, Moore used every trick in the book and more for that documentery.

 

[shart1780]

Half truths almost always decieve, and they definitely do in Moore's case. If he were interested in bettering America he would be more interested in presenting the entire truth. He's obviously pushing an agenda. And why does he have to decieve us anyways? He obviously feels that the truth will either hurt his position or we're too stupid to hear the whole truth.

Either way, people like Moore can only hurt the country.

 

[Hallucination]

Half truths almost always decieve, and they definitely do in Moore's case. If he were interested in bettering America he would be more interested in presenting the entire truth. He's obviously pushing an agenda. And why does he have to decieve us anyways? He obviously feels that the truth will either hurt his position or we're too stupid to hear the whole truth.

Either way, people like Moore can only hurt the country.

Well the people who blindly follow Moore and belive everything he says are as dumb a those who blindly follow Bush and belive everything he says so I guess it evens out.

 

[packcrush]

Half truths almost always decieve, and they definitely do in Moore's case. If he were interested in bettering America he would be more interested in presenting the entire truth. He's obviously pushing an agenda. And why does he have to decieve us anyways? He obviously feels that the truth will either hurt his position or we're too stupid to hear the whole truth.

Either way, people like Moore can only hurt the country.

Maybe. . .still. . .guns are bad.

 

[shart1780]

Well the people who blindly follow Moore and belive everything he says are as dumb a those who blindly follow Bush and belive everything he says so I guess it evens out.

What's Bush have to do with it? Anyone who blindly follows anyone is dumb. Especially people who have proven themselves to be un-trustworthy, such as Moore. He cares more for his agenda than our country.

 

[packcrush]

What's Bush have to do with it? Anyone who blindly follows anyone is dumb. Especially people who have proven themselves to be un-trustworthy, such as Moore. He cares more for his agenda than our country.

And what is his agenda?

 

[david]

And what is his agenda?

It seems his agenda is pointing out the shitty things about the USA.

 

[shart1780]

I'm honestly not sure what he expects to gain from what he does. But he obviously cares about what he's trying to get across considering he spent millions on a documentary. My point is he's trying very hard to get us to believe him, and he's willing to lie to do so.

If his goal were to raise awareness the truth wouldn't scare him.

 

[Yahweh]

Its something that the majority wont notice anyways infact you could barely hear the line the first time I watched it.

 

[MsMofoGone]

Moore used every trick in the book and more for that documentary.

Totally agree !!

 

[david]

Its something that the majority wont notice anyways infact you could barely hear the line the first time I watched it.

when i first saw it i thought he said "k-martyrs"

 

[Hallucination]

What's Bush have to do with it? Anyone who blindly follows anyone is dumb. Especially people who have proven themselves to be un-trustworthy, such as Moore. He cares more for his agenda than our country.

You're talking about Moore's agenda and his lies. His "lies" are based on his own agenda to get the Bush administration out of office. I figured it was obvious what Bush had to do with my comments. Chill. It was in no way shape or form a shot at you. is that how you took it?

 

[indra]

I'm honestly not sure what he expects to gain from what he does. But he obviously cares about what he's trying to get across considering he spent millions on a documentary. My point is he's trying very hard to get us to believe him, and he's willing to lie to do so.

If his goal were to raise awareness the truth wouldn't scare him.

Except for the word documentary, everything in your post also applies to Bush.

I think a deceptive president is far more dangerous than a deceptive film maker.

 

[beegee]

It's a reference to humans and on this paticular occasion the humans living in America to put down your damn guns and start respecting one and other. I don't care who he was refering to he's right. Whether it's the looters, the soldiers, the mafia, the terrorists, the gangs, the random criminals who shoot for the sake of it. Just put the guns down is what he's saying.

but was a benefit for the victims of katrina really the correct time and place?

Its something that the majority wont notice anyways infact you could barely hear the line the first time I watched it.

hmmm, it did seem to lack conviction. perhaps he wasn't all that confident about saying it?

 

[doctorwho]

I just think that if they really felt the need to condemn someone over this, it might as well be the gov't, not the people who were "looting" food, water, and clothing.

Yikes! I can't see how you got to this conclusion.

Haven't any of you read/heard the news? People who were stealing food/water and clothing can be forgiven. But that's not the only thing that was going on. People were stealing TV's and computers. Looting of all sorts was occurring. People were being raped - yes, raped - while in the SuperDome. Just recently, a Katrina victimized family took what few belongings they could salvage and brought them to the Boston area - only to have someone steal those items from them!! This is the America we are living in. When the tsunami struck the Indian Ocean last December, there were no reports of rape, theft and looting. But here in the grand ol' U.S., people are taking advantage whenever they can.

And THIS is what Bono's line meant.

But I guess it's just easier to blame the government - which does deserve blame - while turning a blind eye to how much harm people actually caused themselves (like shooting at rescuers ).

 

[gherman]

Who fucking cares

 

[FungusAmongus]

I am sure whatever the reason was.. it was a good reason. Either way.. the kind of violence (shooting, looting, attacks on innocent babies, raping..) that's been going on down in New Orleans since this whole storm ordeal has been horrific and disgusting. I kind of took that as part of what Bono was referring to lastnight in his intention of playing that song of all song, in general. As for the "K-martyrs" reference.. who knows.. like I said, I'm sure there's more to it.
What I am even more baffled by, is that Bono never even said a word during either of these benefit concerts. Usually he has a little something to say regarding whatever cause it is they are getting involved in. Be it Africa, 9-11, whatever.. or just.. anything. Bono's Bono.. he likes to talk, likes to say what he's feeling and his quietness about this matter seemed a little weird.
Just seemed a little out of character. Just.. the whole thing, in general.

I am not accusing Bono of anything horrible. In fact, quite the opposite. I'm starting to wonder if he's beginning to question our government as well (as many should question them and wake up and see beyond the lies).. and some of the things going on, and kind of wants to keep his mouth shut about it to be safe.. (Bush and his party, and the brought up theory of racism being behind a lot of this regarding Bush...and the shitty way they have handled it.)

I think there was a very good and logical reason behind Bono's choice of song and lyrics lastnight. I may be stretching it.. but... who knows.

 

[corianderstem]

Well, he didn't say anything during the "Tribute to Heroes" concert, either, unless you count "Hello from London."

I didn't see the Saturday night concert, but in the Friday concert, none of the performers said anything outside of their performance.

 

[VertigoGal]

Yikes! I can't see how you got to this conclusion.

Haven't any of you read/heard the news? People who were stealing food/water and clothing can be forgiven. But that's not the only thing that was going on. People were stealing TV's and computers. Looting of all sorts was occurring. People were being raped - yes, raped - while in the SuperDome. Just recently, a Katrina victimized family took what few belongings they could salvage and brought them to the Boston area - only to have someone steal those items from them!! This is the America we are living in. When the tsunami struck the Indian Ocean last December, there were no reports of rape, theft and looting. But here in the grand ol' U.S., people are taking advantage whenever they can.

And THIS is what Bono's line meant.

But I guess it's just easier to blame the government - which does deserve blame - while turning a blind eye to how much harm people actually caused themselves (like shooting at rescuers ).

Okay...the majority of people were looting food, water, and clothing. A few people may have taken TVs the first day, when it appeared they would be spared total devastation, but that's about it. The guy(s) that raped someone? The crowd beat him/them to death. Dehydration often results in paranoia, sometimes meaning shooting at rescuers. It's common outside of this particular situation.

Of course there're a few bad elements in every situation, but there's no need to act like the people there are animals.

This situation is much different from the Asian tsunami, also.

So, I don't think Bono needs to come on and start making a big deal out of a few incidents, especially during a fund raiser for those very people, when the much larger problem lies with the government's incompetence handling the aftermath. It's that incompetence which lead to such a desperate situation 3 or 4 days after the fact.

Of course I don't really know what Bono was trying to say in the first place.

 

[biff]

Who fucking cares

That's so mature.

 

[EPandAmerica]

It's a reference to humans and on this paticular occasion the humans living in America to put down your damn guns and start respecting one and other. I don't care who he was refering to he's right. Whether it's the looters, the soldiers, the mafia, the terrorists, the gangs, the random criminals who shoot for the sake of it. Just put the guns down is what he's saying.

 

[misfit toys]

When the tsunami struck the Indian Ocean last December, there were no reports of rape, theft and looting.

Yes, there were. There were also reports of children being stolen to be sex slaves.

 

[Lila64]

maybe Bono forgot the lyrics







Just Kidding

 

[doctorwho]

Half truths almost always decieve, and they definitely do in Moore's case. If he were interested in bettering America he would be more interested in presenting the entire truth. He's obviously pushing an agenda. And why does he have to decieve us anyways? He obviously feels that the truth will either hurt his position or we're too stupid to hear the whole truth.

Either way, people like Moore can only hurt the country.

Not true at all...

Yes, Moore did "stretch the truth" in "Bowling for Columbine". He had an agenda and presented one-half of the story. Even Roger Ebert was very upset with Moore when Ebert learned that the total truth was not presented.

That said, there is also a lot of truth in the documentary. Those children did die in Columbine. The killers did go bowling before-hand. And they had easy access to weapons.

With regards to "Farhenheit 911", almost all of that is true. Yes, Moore still has an agenda, but in this case, he presented the facts and only the facts. Bush truly sat in that classroom, not knowing what to do, for 7 minutes after the first attack on the twin towers occurred. No person in Congress - and this includes Democrats - has their children in the Army (or other armed forces). Just recently, a mother of a killed soldier wanted to meet with Bush outside his ranch (where he was taking yet another nice long 5-week vacation) and ask him why he hasn't encouraged his daughters to join the Army. I think that's a valid question, not just for Bush, but for any upper level politician.

In other words, while Moore was not as truthful as he should have been in "Bowling...", he was honest in "F. 911".

But more importantly, how on earth do these documentaries hurt the country? "Bowling..." made a little over $20M at the box office. It's not like it became some runaway hit that altered the thinking of the nation. It presented some facts that many of us had already seen on the news. And "F. 911" was even more fact-based. Anyone who paid attention already knew of everything that Moore discussed in that documentary (nothing Moore presented was new to me - I just enjoyed how he put it all together). Documentaries do NOT hurt the nation. I did not see anyone mourning over the release of those films. However, I did see tons of mourning, agony, loss, anxiety, fear and anger from those who suffered in Columbine or NYC. Guns kill people. Terrorists kill people. These DO affect a nation. To claim that Moore can hurt a country is like complaining about the pebble you just stepped on while ignoring the cancer running rampant throughout your body.

 

[RocknRollKitty]

The film shed light on the fact that in America at one time it was relatively easy to buy guns and ammunition at the chain of department stores called K-Mart.

The film touched upon the fact that the bullets from K-Mart were sold to the teens that went on a shooting rampage at Columbine High School in 1999.

Actually, they didn't sell them bullets, they were underage. They got an older friend, a girl they worked with, to do it. And I feel sorry for anyone who gets their info about America from "Bowling for Columbine." It's too full of twisted inaccuracies and propaganda.

 

[Earnie Shavers]

Well, from the outside (ie outside the US) looking in, one of the most bizarre and disturbing scenes from New Orleans was the gun related stuff. There were stories of Walmarts getting robbed of their stock of guns and ammo. Stories of people shooting at rescuers, shooting at police, shooting at each other. Then the Governor declaring that the National Guard was to shoot back, "Shoot to kill".

From here in Australia it is a completely foreign and downright bizarre idea that you can walk into a Walmart type store in the US and buy a gun. I think that would be the same for just about every western country. It's just not reality here, but it is in the US. It's is also completely incomprehensable that people would be using them on rescuers and each other, or that the military would be ordered to use them against it's own citizens (or that they'd have to - that their own citizens would be using them to warrant it). I think in the US it may be hard to see how strange that all is to most people in places like Australia, Europe etc?

Bono, if you'd paid any attention to the Elevation Tour Bullet the Blue Sky rant, is anti-gun. In a country like mine, most people are, and it simply isn't a debate, a non-issue.

So, you have to understand that that was a big part of the news for non Americans. The guns in the stores, the theft of them, the use of them, is bizarre and very much looked down upon, leaving most of us to read and watch those stories and think "What the fuck?!?" That, I believe, is what Bono is saying. It was a shocking thing to see and read about. "What the fuck are you doing?!? Put the guns down!!! What the fuck is wrong with you?!?"

K-Marters, Walmarters, Americans - lay down your guns. Simple.

 

[doctorwho]

Okay...the majority of people were looting food, water, and clothing. A few people may have taken TVs the first day, when it appeared they would be spared total devastation, but that's about it. The guy(s) that raped someone? The crowd beat him/them to death. Dehydration often results in paranoia, sometimes meaning shooting at rescuers. It's common outside of this particular situation.

Of course there're a few bad elements in every situation, but there's no need to act like the people there are animals.

This situation is much different from the Asian tsunami, also.

So, I don't think Bono needs to come on and start making a big deal out of a few incidents, especially during a fund raiser for those very people, when the much larger problem lies with the government's incompetence handling the aftermath. It's that incompetence which lead to such a desperate situation 3 or 4 days after the fact.

Of course I don't really know what Bono was trying to say in the first place.

I think your last sentence is key. Both of us are speculating here. We cannot conclusively state what Bono meant - rather just speculate. And there are many different interpretations. While this concert was for the benefit of those victimized by Katrina, Bono may have thrown in a jab at the on-going war in Iraq. He may have been critical of those shooting at rescue workers. He may have been critical of those looting. He may have been critical of the U.S. government which has no problems sending "guns" to Iraq but cannot help its own people in a timely manner. He may simply have been critical of our fascination with guns and the easy access to them. That one line conjures all of this and more - which also makes it a very powerful line, IMO, and one that perhaps needed to be said. We can only help so much. When people are stealing from each other, shooting as rescuers and refusing to evacuate, what can our donations really do?

But going to your earlier statement, yes, this situation is a lot different than the tsunami. It's orders of magnitude in difference!! The tsunami wiped out cities while killing hundreds of thousands of people. Numerous countries were affected. The devastation may take decades to repair. And the tsunami came with little warning. In contrast, the hurricane was forecast to hit New Orleans days in advance. People had plenty of time to evacuate - or make arrangements to leave. Many chose not to go or used excuses about how they couldn't leave. Either way, a LOT more could have been done before-hand. Once the devastation hit, tens of thousands were affected - with relatively few deaths (compared to the tsunami). There was mass destruction, but nothing like the tsunami. Yet, here in the good ol' U.S. of A., we saw wild looting and shooting. People around the globe were shocked at our barbaric behavior, from how some citizens there behaved to the lack of action from local and federal governments. A tsunami affects millions and the world leaps to action. A hurricane devastates several cities and the governments are once again sleeping and some Americans are taking full advantage.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

when i first saw it i thought he said "k-martyrs"

that's the context i thought he said it in, too... i thought it was an obvious reference to gun control.

frankly i'm not sure it was the appropriate song to be played at the time... i mean, it rocked... and i've uploaded the mp3 to my iPod... but using a relief telethon as a way to push a different agenda, all be it a good one, probably wasn't the best route to go... but seeing as 99% of the people watching simply heard "love and peace" and thought it was all nicey nice and didn't actually pay attention to what the song's really about, i don't think it really matters.


oh... and michael moore can lick my asshole

 

[beegee]

none of it changes the fact that it wasn't bono's place to use a benefit show to make a political statement about gun control.

it just simply wasn't the place, and it wasn't the time.