about until the end of the world "spilling over the brim"

[babyman]

i've read niall stokes U2 book, "into the heart", and talking about end of the world he says that "spilling over the brim" refers to oral sex, what do you think, is it true?

 

[Numb1075]

I would bet that's at least part of it

 

[wolfeden]

the whole album has references to oral sex throughout it.....

I'd say the line just before the one you quoted makes it obvious, no?

 

[babyman]

the whole album has references to oral sex throughout it.....

I'd say the line just before the one you quoted makes it obvious, no?

"surrounding me, going down on me..." actually yes, but it comes a bit strange to me, what connection can there be, the song speaks about an imaginary dialogue between jesus and judas, what is the right sense? i'm asking this to all...but what do you think, wolfeden?

 

[Axver]

What in the world? I'd love to know where you could get that meaning from ...

 

[what a bomb!]

well I always thought about the song being about judas, but maybe as most of the album is meant to be about edge's divorce ect, maybe that line is being thrown in to show its a betrayal on the scale of judas but by a woman? I dunno its late and I've had a few beers! lol

 

[wolfeden]

i've read niall stokes U2 book, "into the heart", and talking about end of the world he says that "spilling over the brim" refers to oral sex, what do you think, is it true?

Stokes' statement refers to the entire line, not just that one piece...

"And there is an unmistakable reference to oral sex: "Surrounding me, going down on me/spilling over the brim."

just the abstract "spilling over the brim" doesn't mean much on its own; it's really the first lyric that's blatant whereas the second half makes a literary come-round (ooh, bad pun) to the first stanza regarding drowning sorrows... typically a reference to drinking alcohol in order to forget one's troubles..

 

[Blue Room]

Bill Flanagan also address's this in his book. He asks Bono and Edge why are there so many oral sex references in the Achtung Baby material. Here are the lines he refers to:

"Surrounding me, going down on me", (which is discussed already); "You can swallow or you can spit," "Here she comes, six and nine again," "Did I leave a bad taste in your mouth."

In response Bono mumbles something about sixty-nine being one of the most equal sexual positions and then strongly suggests that they go onto another subject.

 

[t8thgr8]

um....how could bill leave out the most obvious. if you wanna kiss the sky better get on your knees, on your knees boy!

ive always been told mysterious ways was about cunnilingus (sp?)

are there anyother bj lines in achtung bebe?

 

[wolfeden]

ah yes, the erotic intrigue of Achtung Baby..

It's an interesting topic to get into and one I do think is worthy of discussion, I'd kinda like to make sure the mods are ok with it tho... don't wanna get anyone including myself into trouble.

Perhaps this thread could be lifted over to Musical Journey?

 

[Sicy]

The topic is welcome to be discussed in a mature and adult manner

 

[wolfeden]

"surrounding me, going down on me..." actually yes, but it comes a bit strange to me, what connection can there be, the song speaks about an imaginary dialogue between jesus and judas, what is the right sense? i'm asking this to all...but what do you think, wolfeden?

Stokes says the song was written for Wim Wenders, which makes me wonder 'in what sense for?' For a film? Or for an idea Wenders gave them, like Love Is Blindness being written 'for' Nina Simone?

Yes it's characterized in both Flanagan and Stokes' books, as others have pointed out, as being about Judas and Jesus... I think the sexual reference is in there partially for the underlying theme of the album and partially because it conveys a very tangled set of emotions rather than referring a specific act... does that make sense?

To compare... look at Pride, as everyone knows written about Dr. King... but the individual lines don't all relate exactly to the man..
'one man betrayed with a kiss'? er?

 

[Axver]

Honestly, I don't understand this in the slightest. It's like people are just trying to find sexual references that aren't even there. Anyone can tell you UTEOTW is about Judas, so you don't need a degree to know the 'I was drowning my sorrows, but my sorrows learnt to swim, surrounding me ...' verse is about Judas's despair after realising what he'd done.

 

[Axver]

I hate to make two posts in a row but I forgot to reply to this ...

ive always been told mysterious ways was about cunnilingus (sp?)

Heh, not in the slightest. I subscribe to the theory it's about the Holy Spirit, which is supported by various lines Bono improvised live.

 

[BVS]

I just think it's Bono's way of playing with words. Since AB he's really embraced the idea of talking about spirituality and sexuality in the same sentence and there's nothing wrong with that. I can't remember the exact quote but Bono once said something like a lot of the songs I write are about girls or about God and sometimes that line is blurred.

 

[arw]

I just think it's Bono's way of playing with words. Since AB he's really embraced the idea of talking about spirituality and sexuality in the same sentence and there's nothing wrong with that. I can't remember the exact quote but Bono once said something like a lot of the songs I write are about girls or about God and sometimes that line is blurred.

I totally agree with this that Bono writes things that could go either way as a play on words. I think a lot of the stuff that might seem like it's obviously one particular subject could really be something else. A lot of literature is written with double meaning and it's all subjective to the reader as to what it really means.

Honestly, I don't understand this in the slightest. It's like people are just trying to find sexual references that aren't even there. Anyone can tell you UTEOTW is about Judas,so you don't need a degree to know the 'I was drowning my sorrows, but my sorrows learnt to swim, surrounding me ...' verse is about Judas's despair after realising what he'd done.----Axver

You're assuming then, since a degree is not needed, that everyone just knows the bible. Not everyone is familiar with Christianity or the bible. I had zero clue that this song could be about Jesus and Judas until a few years ago when I started reading all of the books written about U2. I'd never know there was a religious story behind the song. The lines to me just sounded like a referrence to oral sex.

 

[Axver]

You're assuming then, since a degree is not needed, that everyone just knows the bible. Not everyone is familiar with Christianity or the bible. I had zero clue that this song could be about Jesus and Judas until a few years ago when I started reading all of the books written about U2. I'd never know there was a religious story behind the song. The lines to me just sounded like a referrence to oral sex.

I actually thoroughly messed up what I was trying to say. Of course not everyone's familiar with Christianity or the Bible, and not even I knew UTEOTW was about Jesus and Judas for about two months after I first heard it (and I'm a Christian), but what I meant to say was that once you do know that, the verse fits perfectly with the rest of the song and doesn't even seem to imply oral sex. At least not to me.

 

[arw]

I actually thoroughly messed up what I was trying to say. Of course not everyone's familiar with Christianity or the Bible, and not even I knew UTEOTW was about Jesus and Judas for about two months after I first heard it (and I'm a Christian), but what I meant to say was that once you do know that, the verse fits perfectly with the rest of the song and doesn't even seem to imply oral sex. At least not to me.

thank you for clarifying your original post!

 

[U2girl]

I look at the song in the context of the album's theme on relationships, betrayal etc...I see it as a song betwee two lovers (I kissed your lips, broke your heart etc...). The "drowning my sorrows" bit to me is saying the person that did the betrayal is indeed drowning himself in alcohol. They recall the moments of the relationship gone bad (waves of sorrows, waves of joy), and the finish "you said you'd wait till the end of the world" line to me is meant sarcastically; the other person may have said that after the betrayal (cheating?) but it's clear there's no way back. Even if anyone said that about waiting, it's not happening.

AB has many alleged sexual references. IMO Even better than the real thing is the one song on it that is openly and clearly sexual.

 

[EPandAmerica]

I just had this conversation with my best friend a few weeks ago. For a while listening to Bono's lyrics you think he's singing about sex and then you do some research and find out he is singing about God. It always ends up being about God.

To me the "if you wanna kiss the sky" = "if you want to get in to heaven" & "on your knees boy" = "pray"

UTEOTW is about a relationship, the relationship between Jesus and Judas.

There are a few articles like the one BVS mentioned where Bono talks about God/Girls .... God/Sex in his writing style.

 

[biff]

Don't forget the line from Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses:
"Who's gonna taste your salt water kisses?". Bono has acknowledged that this is a reference to oral sex as well. It's a great, subtle line.

 

[FallingStar]

Don't forget the line from Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses:
"Who's gonna taste your salt water kisses?". Bono has acknowledged that this is a reference to oral sex as well. It's a great, subtle line.

Okay, I didn't think I was really THAT naive, but I always thought he meant tears...crying and then kissing like after a row...

wow

 

[biff]

Well, it certainly heightens the sense of sexual jealousy that this song is filled with, and adds urgency to the line, "Who's gonna take the place of me?"

 

[what a bomb!]

The topic is welcome to be discussed in a mature and adult manner

"sniggers"

 

[wolfeden]

It's also one thing to keep in mind, even the B-man himself has said often that HE doesn't even know what the songs are about until later.....

part of why, I think, they have so much appeal.. any one song can have so many different meanings at different times in one's life.

He might have been imagining discourse between Judas and Jesus when he started writing the thing, and then as he puts it "got out of the way" and let the words come through him rather than from him.

Songs can come to have a different meaning in time even to the writer.......

 

[what a bomb!]

oppps! double post! sorree!

 

[babyman]

what I meant to say was that once you do know that, the verse fits perfectly with the rest of the song and doesn't even seem to imply oral sex. At least not to me.

actually, to me it's the same, i've never got the sense that it may have a reference to oral sex, when i read the book it just surprised me, because the whole song is talking about jesus and judas, it would be a bit inappropriate...i guess

 

[babyman]

i don't see any references to their private lives or to edge's divorce in this song, it talks about the last dinner, the betrayal of judas, and then about judas remorse, "i reached out to the one i tried to destroy" i think that "end of the world" is clearly referring to the apocalypse "you say you wait until the end of the world, god's judgement's day

 

[Numbology]

Acrobat is pretty much filled with sexual references,(BJ):
"You can swallow,
or you can spit,
you can throw it up
or choke on it..."

 

[mofo82]

i think you need to imagine that the lyrics, when referring to their biblical origins, also serve a purpose beyond simply re-telling a story- i believe the scriptures and writings from the bible are great to use as metaphors to relate to our own problems and happenings. i think its sorta nieve to simply take the lyrics in a song for what they say on the surface and not think of the implications they have on the artists personal life. to not see into 'the acrobat' or 'until the end of the world' and think that the songs DO NOT relate to one or all of the band members kinda turns them into karaoke machines or song boxes to simply tell stories that already existed...

i say this as an artist. i dont write songs but i paint, draw...lately ive been creating work that means so much to me and there are many metaphors buried within that are more than rehashings of information that aren't related to me personally

you cant always see what is really there...thats the challenge as an artist and as a critic, a listenter, a viewer, a fan

whew