about until the end of the world "spilling over the brim"

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This is just a sort of generalization regarding all of U2's music, not just looking at the question of sexual messages Vs. religious messages. I think part of why U2 has remained so huge, so inspiring and relevant is because their music can have so many different interpretations. Different people can take away different things from a lot of their songs, and to me that is what makes them so great. I can listen to a song in any given mood and have it mean one thing, while another day, I am in a different mood and interpret it completely different. "Actung Baby" came out around the time my parents got divorced and I have always felt close to the ideas of betrayal and loneliness in the album. Had it dropped during a happier point in my life, I imagine I would hear something completely different.

I hope that makes some sense. I always get a little confused when I try to discuss U2's music and the thoughts and emotions that it inspires. But I really do feel that sometimes these completely opposite ideas of what the lyrics mean is what makes them so great, and is also what gives them such a huge following.
 
I always thought the lines about judas was reffering to the guilt he felt which led him to kill himself



"in my dreams I was drowning my sorrows but my sorrows they learned to swim, surrounding me going down on me spilling over the brim"


To me is judas saying the guilt he felt in effect haunted him to that level as if he felt violated.


"waves of regret waves of joy I reached out to the one I tried to destroy"


I always heard that as a reference to suicide " reaching out to the one he tried to destroy" ie god/jesus or whatever.
 
"in my dreams I was drowning my sorrows but my sorrows they learned to swim, surrounding me going down on me spilling over the brim"

I think that lyrics are subjective for both writer and listener when I listen to this particular line I think of someone drinking themselves to death trying to forget, to kill the sorrow away but the pain never goes away. This is not to say that the line wasnt written with a different intention. The great thing about U2 is that it the songs open to interperatation and manage not to isolate people or try to force belief upon them. I for instance am not a christian but I love UTEOW for it's lyrics simply because it represents one of the greatest betrayals of all time from a different perspective, its about things we find in our own lives and that is important.

In an case its bloody good and worth debating.
 
I think that the fact that Bono shouts 'Judas' at the start of the song, just about every time he performs it live these days, pretty much gives away the judas connection :)
 
without a doubt theres the religious connection (bono shouting judas is obvious)...several posts earlier someone said that they didnt see that the song relates to anything else, i.e. sexual references, and in my opinion that doesnt recognize u2's ability to write complicated songs that have so many meanings, both on and below the surface.
 
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i just think that a lot of criticians or writers or musical experts were a bit wrong with seeing so much sexual references in achtung baby, uteotw hasn't definitely any references on sex or oral sex, end of the world is a very spiritual song where behind the figure of judas hides in my opinion part of bono himself, particularly relative to his faith...i think the title until the end of the world, which in my opinion refers to god's judgement day, contains a very strong belief
 
i hear you on that one babyman...i have to say that the choice of lyrics is really clever; that we can still be that involved in an song's meaning this many years after its release is really cool. one of the things that i am a fan of is that there havent been too many clear cut meanings that the band members have put on the songs...the songs stand on their own and continue to gather new meanings as more and more people open their minds.
 
yeah, mofo82, that's why U2 are the best, and that's why we're the best fans! :wink: they're realistics, dreamers, poetics, argumentatives, the most deepest artists ever known...they write songs which impress in our minds so much thoughts which you can't avoid to do, even after 25 years, because they really open our brains...i don't know, but i've learned really an amazing lot for my social life thanx to U2
 
It's funny how when you first hear a song, your mood and thoughts at the time really influence how you interpret the lyrics. It's cool after a while to hear that "this song was actually written about [whatever]", but you never quite let go of your first impression. Having so many ways to look at a song is almost like hunting for buried treasure... you'll find different stuff depending on what you're looking for.

I guess it's funny to me because I am not a religious person (in any sense), so Jesus and Christianity are the LAST things I would think of when listening to music. Oh I am well aware of the religious content in U2's music (oddly enough, 'October' is my favorite U2 album as a whole), it's just that my first impressions of their songs are always secular.

For instance, I thought of this song as a tale of two folks who were close at one time (good friends, possibly lovers) and then, after years of not seeing each other, met again. In the first part of the song, the person telling the story is saying how much the other is a wet blanket/spoilsport, but at the end, it seemed the roles had been reversed, due to the speaker's hard experiences with the world.

I know about the whole Judas-to-Jesus conversation bit, I know that's how Bono intended the song, but I still think of it in the way I first 'heard' it.

goat

}:)~
 
babyman said:
i just think that a lot of criticians or writers or musical experts were a bit wrong with seeing so much sexual references in achtung baby, uteotw hasn't definitely any references on sex or oral sex,

well all context aside, "going down on me" absolutely is a definite reference to oral sex, whether meant literally or figuratively for the seduction of sinking into rage and sorrow.
 
babyman said:
"going down on me" may refer only to "sorrows".......no? :hmm:

*nods* Yea you have it right there....
He's not referencing a literal act, not directly anyway.

Within the context of the verse... he used the phrase to be provocative no doubt, but to illustrate how easy it is to be seduced by your own 'sorrows' ....when you set out to drown them (eg the act of getting intoxicated), they can sometimes turn around and pull you right under with them.
 
Until before Achtung Baby, Bono had used a lot of religous references to express himself in the lyrics, in AB Bono starts to mix the religious references with sexual references, which can be read in that way, or in a subtle way, if you were an outsider, you would think he is only talking about love to a certain person, but his songs can be interpreted as love to another person or to God, or pure sexual relations, or a mix of all of the above, the interaction between love, sex and faith, which is the way I like to think of the meanings of U2 songs.
U2 songs in my opinion usually don't have just ONE meaning, I don't think Bono could explain most of their lines in a 100 % way.
 
his songs can be interpreted as love to another person or to God, or pure sexual relations, or a mix of all of the above,the interaction between love, sex and faith , which is the way I like to think of the meanings of U2 songs.
...by rafmed

i think thats a great way to describe what bono's lyrics have done, in particular in the 90's work. i'd personally like to hear, see, read (all of the above) more of those interactions in their upcoming albums. reason being, i really enjoy the debates that go on for me personally when thinking "what could this line mean in this context", then have all of that change up on me the next time, simply because my mood has changed.

i dont feel atyclb gives us that confusion, the paradoxes. instead we have everything spelled out for us, which i guess was the goal since it was meant to be a pop album. pop = simple lyrics

i think im onto something but i can quite explain it anyone who cares to add to this please do i really enjoy this topic:wink:
 
rafmed said:
Until before Achtung Baby, Bono had used a lot of religous references to express himself in the lyrics, in AB Bono starts to mix the religious references with sexual references, which can be read in that way, or in a subtle way, if you were an outsider, you would think he is only talking about love to a certain person, but his songs can be interpreted as love to another person or to God, or pure sexual relations, or a mix of all of the above, the interaction between love, sex and faith, which is the way I like to think of the meanings of U2 songs.
U2 songs in my opinion usually don't have just ONE meaning, I don't think Bono could explain most of their lines in a 100 % way.


yeah, you're right, i agree, good point!!
 
My view on the subject is that U2 have already overtly expressed their faith on songs like Gloria and Rejoice and that none of the AB songs are religious by design. I think it's interesting when Bono uses strong religious imagery like in UTEOTW, Still Haven't Found or When Love Comes to Town when the song appears to be about something else entirely. UTEOTW in particular seems a deeply personal song abouta damaging relationship which would make sense given Edge's marital problems at the time.
 
I have to add that I think it's telling that Bono stands on the edge (no pun intended) of the crowd during those specific lines, giving fans a little physical access.

I do agree 100% with Rafmed:

"U2 songs in my opinion usually don't have just ONE meaning, I don't think Bono could explain most of their lines in a 100 % way."

For instance Bono's line about taking the songs on the road to find out what they're really about.
 
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ooh well I thikn I kinda figured out my interperetation of "Surrounding me, going down on me"
You see I have a lot of drama queen friends who like to make themselves feel more depressed by sort of looking for things to depress them. ALmost finding pleasure in depression and sorrow. So I kinda feel like the line "In my dremas I was drowning my sorrows, my sorrows they learned to swim, surrounding me, going down on me.." Is a way of saying he let his sorrows win by enjoying the feeling of being sorrow.
 
RavenStar said:
ooh well I thikn I kinda figured out my interperetation of "Surrounding me, going down on me"
You see I have a lot of drama queen friends who like to make themselves feel more depressed by sort of looking for things to depress them. ALmost finding pleasure in depression and sorrow. So I kinda feel like the line "In my dremas I was drowning my sorrows, my sorrows they learned to swim, surrounding me, going down on me.." Is a way of saying he let his sorrows win by enjoying the feeling of being sorrow.


oh, maybe a bit too masochist!! :wink: i don't think he's enjoying the feeling of being sorrow, perhaps he's explaining the sorrow of being sorrow! :wink: i think this verse is describing judas taken by the qualms of conscience because of the jesus betrayal, and here comes out all his desperation. he was dreaming that he was drowning his remorses but they were so ferocious that he couldn't avoid to get dominate of them. it's a deep sad feeling
 
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