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Old 06-17-2005, 02:53 AM   #121
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And the reason U2 have lasted so long is that there are people like Larry, who couldn't give a fuck, to balance it out!
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Old 06-17-2005, 07:14 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally posted by beli
Firstly, I'll go beat up Financeguy. I know which thread he lives in.

The actual breakup of a marriage isn't art, no. I just find it odd that the only album that features profound lyrics, to me, is the one recorded when The Edge was experiencing heavy personal issues. Why is this? Did The Edge write some of the lyrics? Does Bono only experience pain through very close friends (as well as himself)? To me a poet is a person who has empathy and feels many situations.

As for personal pain of Bonos, Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own is full of cliches. Nothing profoud here.



Stuck in a Moment is a deeper but its completely missing on understanding of the situation. I know we disagree on this and thats fine. I feel if you say "pull yourself together" to a suicidal person they are likely to pull a punch or jump off the edge.

Slide Away is another one thats not empathetic



We could pick through the lyrics on the latest album. Again, nothing profound there.

Or another album. I'm curious as to which songs you find intriguing.

PS What do you teach? This is where you come out and say you teach literature isn't it.


Just a quick answer here. I don't agree that Achtung is the only album with "profound" lyrics, but as to why they are perhaps the most wrenching lyrics? I don't think that's too hard to understand. Two of the lyricist's closest friends were going through bitter, messy divorces. And let's not forget that the band as well, for a time, seemed to be on the brink of a "divorce".

As to the rest, there are many songs from many albums, including a lot off Zooropa and Pop, as well as Joshua Tree. Off the latest album, I am intrigued and/or moved by Crumbs, One Step Closer, Original, Fast Cars (as well as the unreleased Smile and Mercy).
Remember (I know I'm stating the obvious) that lyrics are not poetry; they are meant to be sung, and in Bono's case are usually created after the music. He adds the melodies and the words to complete the music. In Bono's case, through the creative process, the words and the melodies are so entwined that it's hard to view one or other in isolation. They form a creative and often very beautiful whole, and that is what creates the emotional impact.

(And yes, I for many years taught literature at University and college. But in recent years I have veered off in a somewhat different direction, and coordinate and occasionally teach in a department that delivers ESL, EAP and ESP. I specialize now in the area of language assessment.)
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Old 06-17-2005, 10:33 AM   #123
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Quote:
Remember (I know I'm stating the obvious) that lyrics are not poetry; they are meant to be sung, and in Bono's case are usually created after the music. He adds the melodies and the words to complete the music. In Bono's case, through the creative process, the words and the melodies are so entwined that it's hard to view one or other in isolation. They form a creative and often very beautiful whole, and that is what creates the emotional impact.
I agree with you. And thats an excellent description.

Financeguy says:
Quote:
Hmmm. I may have mis-spoken in saying it was an exact "lifting".

Per the John Waters book "Race of Angels - Ireland and the Genesis of U2", page 137:-

" 'The wind will crack in wintertime/This bomb-blast/No spoken words....just a scream/Tonight we build a bridge across the sea and land........'. This, as he [refering to Bono] says, is not American folk or blues. 'The words are much more influenced by poets like Heaney or Kavanagh than, say, Woddy Guthrie' "
You are correct on calling that one.

Ill look up the lyrics to the songs you mentioned in the morning. Dunno about you but Im enjoying this discussion.
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Old 06-17-2005, 11:07 AM   #124
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Me too. But what the heck are you doing up in the middle of the night? Get to sleep, woman!
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Old 06-17-2005, 02:48 PM   #125
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Hi again Beli! I was having some further thoughts whilst preparing dinner (veal parmegianno ).

Re: your comments on Sometimes. I believe that in writing, the type of language selected must be true to and support the theme or subject. Writing doesn't need to be all tortured metaphors to be effective and moving. In this case, the plain, simple language is well-chosen and reflects its subject. Bob Hewson was a blunt and direct man by all accounts, and flowery language of any kind would ring false. The plain, everyday language is, to me, all the more painful, because it reflects the real hurt felt by the unloved son. The line "I know that we don't talk/Can you hear me when I sing/You're the reason I sing" sounds very real to me, like something actually said, and it's all the more moving for this reason. Those lines, combined with the soaring operatic note, are a great creative moment, in my opinion, and very rich in feeling.
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Old 06-18-2005, 02:44 AM   #126
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Lots of random thoughts at the end of a very long day.

Beautiful, simple songs.

1) I agree that songs don't have to be poetry, or tortured. Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own reminds me of Neil Diamond's song Morningside.


Quote:
Morningside
The old man died
And no one cried
They simply turned away
And when he died
He left a table made of nails and pride
And with his hands he carved these words inside
For my children

Morning light
Morning bright
I spent the night
With dreams that make you weep
Morning time
Wash away the sadness from these eyes of mine
For I recall the words the old man signed
For my children

And the legs were shaped with his hands
And the top made of oaken wood
And the children sat around this table
Touched with their laughter
Ah, and that was good

Morningside
An old man died
And no one cried
He surely died alone
And truth is sad
For not a child would claim the gift he had
The words he carved became his epitath
For my children
Beautiful. Simple. From a different perspective to Sometimes but it touches me deeply. I often weep to this song. Sometimes doesn't cause me to weep, cry, anything.

2) George Michael (humour me, please) "You Have Been Loved"

Quote:
She takes the back road and the lane
past the school that has not changed
in all this time
she thinks of when the boy was young
all the battles she had won
just to give him life

that man
she loved that man
for all his life
but now we meet to take him flowers
and only god knows why

for what's the use in pressing palms
when children fade in mother's arms
it's a cruel world
we've so much to lose
and what we have to learn, we rarely choose

so if it's god who took her son
he cannot be the one living in her mind

take care my love, she said
don't think that god is dead
take care my love, she said

you have been loved

if I was weak, forgive me
but I was terrified
you brushed my eyes with angels wings, full of love
the kind that makes devils cry

so these days
my life has changed
and I'll be fine
but she just sits and counts the hours
searching for her crime

for what's the use in pressing palms
if you won't keep such love from harm
it's a cruel world
you've so much to prove

and heaven help the ones who wait for you

well I've no daughters, I've no sons
guess I'm the only one
living in my life

take care my love, he said
don't think that God is dead
take care my love, he said

you have been loved
Beautiful. Simple. Causes me to weep.
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Old 06-18-2005, 02:55 AM   #127
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Cliches, Stereotypes, Old Wives Tales

3) Sissor Sisters "Mary" contains cliches but they hit the right spot with me.

Quote:
I love the tone that's in your laugh
Gasping for an extra breath
Waiting for the time to pass
I believe in days ahead
Don't spend another night alone
Cross and wishing you were dead.

Mary, you shouldn't let 'em make you mad
You hold the best you can
And Mary, after all the pain is gone
I'm always gonna live to be your man.

I've had it easy now you see
When I'm down you're always there
Standing by to comfort me
Someday we'll go round the world
I'll make the journey so sublime
I know you're not a travelin' girl.

Mary, you shouldn't let 'em make you mad
You hold the best you can
And Mary, after all the pain is gone
I'm always gonna live to be your man.

Cause I'd give everything I have
Forget all the things that bring me joy
If you could have one day
Pure and simple happiness
Until that moment comes
I'll be here where I've always been
I'm gonna be your friend
Until the day I die.

Mary, you shouldn't let 'em make you mad
You hold the best you can
And Mary, after all the pain is gone
I'm always gonna live to be your man.

(hold on....)
Bono uses (brilliant English, I'm tired ) many expressions, and cliches in his songs. And it irritates the crap out of me. I'm not sure why I can listen to other singers sing cliches and it not bother me but when Bono does it rubs me up the wrong way. I'm thinking I feel ( ) that Bono sings like hes the first person to ever utter the words or the concept and, well hes not. Yep, I think thats what bothers me.

I still havent reread the lyrics of the songs you listed. My apologies. I will try again tomorrow, family permitting.

"I don't want to be so deep that people have to drown to relate to me." -Bono

"I run away from writing words...words are scary." -Bono


Not that means Bono isn't deep......

Rambling, and the pork is burning. Back tomorrow
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Old 06-20-2005, 01:34 AM   #128
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I treated myself to this, whilst I was buying my old man a father's day gift. 2 hardbacks for £25.00....

Anyway, it's a great read so far. Bono mentions Monty Python!!

Cant wait to read the rest now!
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Old 06-20-2005, 03:05 AM   #129
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I'm on page 90 and so far so good I also bought U2 Show and I'm looking for The Story behind every song
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Old 06-26-2005, 12:19 AM   #130
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Belfast Newsletter: Bono was 'inches' from bomb death

Quote:
BONO'S biographer has branded him a "magician and cold calculator" who is able to "watch himself doing a trick in a very cold way".

French journalist Michka Assayas, who has known U2 since he first arrived to interview the then small-time Irish band in London in 1980, was in Dublin last night for the first of the band's three homecoming concerts.

He also told me that the band's front-man survives the pressures of international celebrity, precisely because of his ability to detach himself from his rock persona.

He said: "I wouldn't say he has no emotions. He is extremely cold, in a way. He is very objective. He is really aware of who 'Bono' is. He sees himself in the third person."

Having hung out with the band, inner
circle and entourage for two and a half decades, the writer who was paid a £150,000 advance for the book says that when he gets to speak to Bono, he is still "extremely warm, extremely simple. It feels like 25 years ago."
This is the similar to what I was refering to in my tactician comments. Its interesting to now hear Michkas opinion of Bono.

Anyway, I really should be reading those lyrics......
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Old 06-26-2005, 02:24 AM   #131
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That's very interesting to read. I watched Denton's interview with Alice Cooper on Monday and Alice was very clear that there are very different people named Alice: There is the rock star "Alice" who is on stage, chopping his head off and spitting fake blood, there is "Alice" who does interviews etc, and there is "me" the guy at home who is a Republican, is pro-Iran war, and plays golf.

Bono has probably developed three separate entities as well. He's definitely not the "real Bono" when doing interviews anymore.
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Old 06-27-2005, 03:27 AM   #132
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Now this is an intriguing comment by Mischka. I'm struck by the fact that he says that Bono can appear cold, yet is warm when he's interviewing him.

Also, I wonder if Edge, Adam and Larry get to see the other persona's as well and what they think to themselves when they see Bono acting in rockstar-mode.
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Old 06-30-2005, 03:39 PM   #133
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Quote:
What you see is exactly what you get.
HORSESHIT.

Quote:
Originally posted by beli


Ive nearly finished the book. I believe Bono has no clue about depression. Perhaps hes one of these 'keep all the plates spinning so I dont have to deal with it' types. Either way he is insensitive to this issue.
You know something? This reminds me of a comment Noel Gallagher once made. He was talking about 'Don't Look Back In Anger'.

Noel being Noel, he went off on a huge rant. Banging on about how much he detested people who permanently hark back to the past, it's gone, etc; he also had a few choice words to say about depression. He did have a point, although his manner was somewhat unrealistic and insensitive. His view seems similar to B's in its extremity.

As I listened to the interview, it became blatantly obvious why these traits irked Noel so much. He hates the part of himself that can't let go of the past. It is a characteristic he possesses in abundance, and it gets to him. So he blocks it out by having no patience with it whatsoever.

That sounds like amateur psychology on my part, and I freely admit that it is. Regardless, if you look at Noel's lyrics and read/listen to other interviews he's done, it's easy to see what his problem is. Himself.
Literally a case of all that you can't leave behind.

So my question is, does the same apply to B?
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Old 06-30-2005, 04:33 PM   #134
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Quote:
LOL, no fear of that. They're all to busy in PLEBA talking about his butt! (Meow.)
Oh no they aren't *pantomime style*.

It is possible to admire Bono - including his butt, - and find the man attractive, without being a complete wet dishrag and blindly buying into every damn thing the man says.


Quote:
Originally posted by the soul waits
Thanks, Beli.
It's quite funny how carefull you are with your wording. It shouldn't be such a big deal to comment on Bono in a less than admiring way-after all, he's human.
Noone will deny that he's a clever businessman.
Very true, on both counts, IMO.
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Old 07-03-2005, 11:31 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally posted by sallycinnamon78


Oh no they aren't *pantomime style*.

It is possible to admire Bono - including his butt, - and find the man attractive, without being a complete wet dishrag and blindly buying into every damn thing the man says.
Absolutely. I have many Bono pix in a Snapfish account and don't blindly buy into everything the guy says. I don't think he wants that in the first place.
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