Which is better -- 90s' U2 or 00s' U2?

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Let me preface this thread by saying a few things, in order to quell the following points that will inevitably get raised in responses to come:

-- I'm totally aware that this forum overwhelmingly prefers the 90s, so we all know how this will work out statistically speaking (hence, no poll). But I think it's interesting to read people's thoughts and overall impresions.

-- I'm counting ALYCLB at the 2000s for several reasons, which I won't list here, but I think most of us agree on that anyway.

-- Thus, there are 3 proper studio LPs in the 90s
Achtung Baby
Zooropa
Pop

(along with the Hasta La Vista Baby limited release and some singles, like "Hold Me Thrill Me" and "Sweetest Thing", et al.)

and 3 proper studio LPs in the 00s:
All That You Can't Leave Behind
How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb
No Line On The Horizon

(along with some special things like the tracks on The Complete U2 and singles like "The Hands That Built America", "Electrical Storm", etc.)

-- I'm not counting the Passengers project because it's not under the name "U2" and the general public is pretty much unaware of it.

-- Feel free to discuss the albums, the tours, the non-LP tracks, the hairstyles, etc.


Initially, I kind of assumed the 90s were better, but thinking about it after the "Top Ten of the 00s thread", I realized that there are a lot of great songs in the 00s. I think one of the "problems" in the 2000s has simply been track-selection for the CDs. In the 80s and 90s (Rattle & Hum being an exception), they seemed to always get the best songs onto the albums and showcase them pretty well. But in the 2000s, there are a lot of quality tunes which never made it onto albums (my favorite being "Flower Child"), partly because, I think, the band are much more "professional" and more craftsmanlike now --- ie., it's easier for them to write songs now than it was in their 20s, but this of course has the downside of producing more generic music, which was the main criticism of their released stuff in the 2000s.

I guess, in the 2000s, I would say their work is not of a lesser quality track-by-track, but there is the whiff of musical conservatism and self-conscious craftsmanship about it all. I don't hold this against them, though, as I think it's completely inevitable after a group has been together than long and starts becoming (a) very professional and craftsmanlike, and (b) a bit protective about their status in the industry. Unlike many of you, I'm not convinced of the merits of NLOTH, which for me has a lot of self-conscious compromise (the middle portion) and some not very convincing "experiments", which are not really very experimental and also not very melodic, leaving the album far too calculated (and over-produced) for my tastes. That's why, in the 2000s, I preferred them loud and rocking, as this seemed to play to their strengths; by contrast, the 90s' "experiments" were more successful because, before Pop (which I also find overly calculated and studio-compromised), they seemed a natural and organic extension of what the group was about.


So... 90s vs. 00s --- discuss!
 
i prefer the 90's because i feel that the band was in a creative peak at the time. i generally tend to listen to music that is less immediate and more creative (Animal Collective, Radiohead, etc..), so there you have it.

one thing i refuse to do though is look at their 2000's output negatively because i love the 90's so much. imo, there are some great tunes this decade, and NLOTH ranks 3rd on my all time list.


ps. i count "Passengers" because U2 did intend to release it under the name U2. the greedy record company wouldn't allow it.
 
one more thing, i totally agree about the track selection this decade. i have found myself making alternate playlists with every album from this decade, yet i won't dare to do that with any albums from the 80's or 90's (except for my studio R&H version).
 
I'll just use what Bono says about the band when they first started out.
He has said "we weren't any good, we were just great."
and also "We didn't have anything but 'it'"

These statements apply to the 90's in this comparison.
U2 were more interesting and more often amazing in the 90's.
And with the latest decade it's the complete opposite (for the most part) of what Bono described about the band's early stages.

Everything but 'it'...more often than not.
And certainly good but rarely great, in almost all cases.
A reviewer once said this about HTDAAB and it says it all, as far as I'm concerned.
"Featureless and flawless" (songcraft, not production issues).

U2 were sloppy and error prone in the 90's but they had 'it' and they were full of 'great'.
This decade it feels like these are things U2 are just trying to conjure up.
And it's really that simple to me.

But I have to say, there are 4 or 5 moments on NLOTH that make me really excited about the next decade.

Also, understand this is a generalization for simplicity's sake.
 
I prefer the 90's but the difference isn't big. Of course I didn't experience it at the time so I'm only looking at the music. I think they were at their most creative during the 90's but that also means that some things just didn't totally work. In 00's they are/were more conservative which is logical if you're in your forty's and you're already making music for more than twenty years. But I still think the three latest albums vary from good (HTDAAB) to excellent (NLOTH). ATYCLB is somewhere in between. In the 90's they made one masterpiece (AB), one excellent album (Pop) and one average album (Zooropa). Their worst album from the 90's and 00's was Zooropa but their best was AB. So the 90's weren't as consistent but were more brilliant (though I think NLOTH is pretty brilliant as well).

The tours were also more daring in the 90's and more conservative in the 00's. But again the 360 tour is pretty daring again. I really think NLOTh is a departure from the first two albums of the 00's. They're trying to be more daring again but they definitly don't push it as far as during the 90's because they don't want to lose their status as biggest band in the world.

And that's my main problem with the 00's. They're scared of a risk.
 
90's - were loud, dirty and sexy

00's - too safe and polished

bit of a generalisation I know, but 90's wins for me.
 
The last album has given me cause to be optimistic, ut the 90s produced Achtung baby, my favourite album of all time, and ZOO TV, the greatest show on earth. On top pf that Zooropa and Passengers are in my top 5 U2 albums, Pop wasn't bad either.
No competition for me, 90s U2.
 
90s by far for me....

AB is a masterpiece, Zooropa is the furthest U2 could push their music knowing that they come from punk-rock after all.... (I don t count Passengers) and POP was such a great album, full of different vibes and style with incredible songs.

00s is ok. ATYCLB was a commercial success but fails in my ears (still better than 95% of other bands...), HTDAAB is rockier, has some great songs but fails as the whole.... Finally came NLOTH which is the best thing since POP, if not AB.... I really love it.

Still, 90s win by 10 miles....
 
I'll just use what Bono says about the band when they first started out.
He has said "we weren't any good, we were just great."
and also "We didn't have anything but 'it'"

These statements apply to the 90's in this comparison.
U2 were more interesting and more often amazing in the 90's.
And with the latest decade it's the complete opposite (for the most part) of what Bono described about the band's early stages.

Everything but 'it'...more often than not.
And certainly good but rarely great, in almost all cases.
A reviewer once said this about HTDAAB and it says it all, as far as I'm concerned.
"Featureless and flawless" (songcraft, not production issues).

U2 were sloppy and error prone in the 90's but they had 'it' and they were full of 'great'.
This decade it feels like these are things U2 are just trying to conjure up.
And it's really that simple to me.

But I have to say, there are 4 or 5 moments on NLOTH that make me really excited about the next decade.

Also, understand this is a generalization for simplicity's sake.

:up::up:
 
ACHTUNG: this is just my opinion
i prefer the 90s:up:
the 90s rock:up: the 00s suck:down:
great U2 music in the nineties: Achtung Baby, Zooropa, Pop plus OST 1, plus HMTMKMKM = fantastic stuff!
crap U2 music in the 90s: The Sweetest Thing

mediocre U2 music in the 00s: ATYCLB, NLOTH, MDH OST
crap U2 music in the 00s: THTBA, Electrical Storm, HTDAAB, WITS

i am a german sauerkraut...and i don't have a clue of anything U2 has ever done
 
Nineties.

I'll go by album:

Achtung Baby: This is my favorite album of all time. Borne by the deep conflict within the band, AB used this conflict and other conflicts, both musically and lyrically, to tie into philosophical themes of the world. I just love how it can seem so much more shallow on the surface, but have so many layers beneath that - it is an album about so many different things at once: contradiction, Berlin, oneness, Edge's divorce, Bono's fame quandaries, jealousy, self-confidence, Dorian Gray... everything the world revolves around, personified into a very personal package. The music follows the lyrics here, or visa-versa; regardless, the music is some of the most interesting they've ever created.

Zooropa: Another album I adore, building off of the themes of Achtung Baby. This time, the album is more of a societal critique (although AB had strong elements of that), tying straight into the ZooTV Tour. The music is cool, beautiful, and interesting (thank you, Mssrs. Eno, Flood, and Edge), and creates another beautiful contradiction: the album's main theme is a satire of man's addiction to technology, but the music is cutting-edge... midnight is truly where the day begins. Lemon is perhaps my favorite U2 song, being the thematic epicenter of the album: a man trapped in his own constructed world of technology, trying to escape but not knowing how, tying very personally into Bono's life, and beyond just a theme of technology; the song really caries the universal theme of staying in one's surroundings versus leaving them, and technology is a means for which both are attempted.

Pop: Again, an amazing album. It starts out with crazy and utter hedonism, even if the three songs that sound hedonistic are primarily parodies of hedonism (contradiction is balance). Mofo is the apex of the album's hedonism trio, being musically and lyrically absolutely insane (I love that song). But Mofo is about human relationships and their value in the world, centering around Bono's "God-shaped hole" with the loss of his mother. And so, after Mofo, all semblance of plastic-happiness collapses into a real world that the band just cannot fully cope with. In this case, the album's supposed weaknesses - its chaos, its confusion, its lack of clarity - actually work, in my eyes, to enhance the album.

ATYCLB - The 2000s begin. My biggest disappointment with this album is in the lyrics - I can't really *think* about it as I can with the 90s album. However, I do still like the album, and will occasionally go out of my way to listen to it. There are some great songs on there (BD, Walk On, Kite, WILATW, TGBHF, and I even have started to like Stuck a bit). But there's also Elevation. I think ATYCLB would be a far better album if it wasn't so front-loaded; it really has no flow as an album in its current state.

Bomb - There's nothing at all that I can find in this album. It's my second-lest-favorite U2 album, after Rattle and Hum. I love COBL, but that's about it. And I don't buy into the argument of the album being overcooked; I don't like any of the outtakes better (well, I like X&W better than Fast Cars, but I don't actually like either song). I think the album might have been interesting if it had gone more in the direction of LAPOE (which is musically awesome, but lyrically annoying) and Native Son thematically, although both would have had to had better lyrics. But it didn't.

NLOTH - I love this album as much as the three 90s albums. I've defended the hell out of it as an album on this forum, and I'm not in the mood to do so again in this thread, but it's not difficult to find my dissections of it.
 
This is like asking "Which is better - being run over by a train or kissing a pretty girl on the mouth?"
 
the 90s rock:up: the 00s suck:down:


C'mon, don't hold back -- tell us how you really feel!

This is like asking "Which is better - being run over by a train or kissing a pretty girl on the mouth?"

Which begs the question -- why are you contributing to a forum of a band that hasn't let you kiss a girl for 12 years? (or was it the 90s that sucked?)
 
i'm just thankful that i prefer a certain decade without hating another. U2 are my favorite musicians, so i'm generally happy with anything they come up with. it's like coffee. i like certain flavors more than others, but at the end of the day, it's still coffee. not scalding....just delicious.
 
I hate coffee :angry:

So... therefore... I hate U2 :crack: I crushed my own world, now :sad:


Now, on topic. 90's U2. Acthung Baby and Zooropa are my two favourite albuns :drool: while ATYCLB and HTDAAB are among the worst :down:
 
I love the 90's vibe (dark, sexy, cool) but too often the quality of the songs doesn't live up to the hype (IMO).

00's for me, without any hesitation :up:
 
This doesn't make any sense.

i thought it made pretty good sense. But what if that pretty girl had "the rage" virus? I'd still kiss her i suppose because it beats getting run over by a train. Or does it? See i dont know...now im not making any fucking sense :doh:

back on topic, i would go with the 90's. However, i would also say that this decade the 00's is finishing very nicely for u2. NLOTH and the 360 Tour are a BIG HIGH NOTE for them. I know they aren't "young" anymore in terms of rock band years. Instead of touring like the flavor of the month emo shit parade the tweenyboppers all adore, u2 has defied gravity once again and are blowing up stadiums all over the land. This stage setup is just sick, but the show itself and the music is just amazing and very special. I wasn't crazy about all of snippets especially the Michael Jackson snippets early on in the tour, RIP, but i welcome Amazing Grace, "God only knows", Stand By Me, are just beautiful. They fit perfectly among u2's own classic songs.

NLOTH is a very gratifying album. I love the title song, magnificent, Unknown Caller, COL, WAS, FBB, and I'm enjoying Breath and after hearing GOYB live i have a new fondness for it. I'm neutral towards Crazy Tonight (i will say "i like it" but I'm not blown away by it) and SUC. Both are "okay" and while not great they certainly not bad. That leads me to MOS, which is easily my favorite song off of NLOTH, and easily my favorite song by this band this decade that i have heard. How this song never got released as a single we'll never know. Maybe u2 released how bad radio sucks and realized this song was too good to be put out there....

I guess i will just say that while there were some really good moments from 2000 on, NLOTH is the high point of the decade for me. And its really ending on a high note.....with a lot of promise for the future and the continuation of the 360 Tour and SOA. U2 are striving for something at the moment i didn't think was possible four years ago. I'm happy to be proven wrong.

All of that said, i guess i still prefer the 90's by the slimmest of margins...
 
So, you don't count Passengers, but you do count non-LP tracks??? That's just silly...

Either we consider everything they've released or we don't.

Anyway, we can argue about which songs we like, and which albums we like, but it seems to me the biggest difference between the two decades is output. A lot more was released in the 90s than the 00s.

4 albums, plus so many B-sides, movie soundtrack tracks, etc etc. The 90s buries the 00s in shear volume, making a direct comparison feel a little unfair....
 
Not sure where you're coming from, Niceman. My standard for what I'm including is pretty simple -- if it had the name "U2" on the record, then I count it. Is this complicated?

As far as the output goes, I actually thought the comparison was natural due to the more-or-less equal amount of output each decade. Even if you count Passengers (which, as I said, we shouldn't for the sake of this thread), it's about 3.5 albums to 3 albums, so still not really a big difference. There were plenty of non-LP singles and non-LP tracks released in the 2000s as well, so I suspect if added up the total tracks from each decade (i.e., those with "U2" as the artist on the label), it would be close to equal, though I haven't the time or inclination to do this math (maybe somebody out there can).
 
OS1 has fourteen tracks on it... quality debates aside, I'm pretty sure that counts as one album rather than half of an album, if we choose to count it at all. I would rather it be counted, but it wouldn't change my answer.
 
I fell in love with U2 on the Elevation tour, so the 00's. But Achtung Baby is my favorite album by a long shot ,then ATYCLB.
 
Not sure where you're coming from, Niceman. My standard for what I'm including is pretty simple -- if it had the name "U2" on the record, then I count it. Is this complicated?

As far as the output goes, I actually thought the comparison was natural due to the more-or-less equal amount of output each decade. Even if you count Passengers (which, as I said, we shouldn't for the sake of this thread), it's about 3.5 albums to 3 albums, so still not really a big difference. There were plenty of non-LP singles and non-LP tracks released in the 2000s as well, so I suspect if added up the total tracks from each decade (i.e., those with "U2" as the artist on the label), it would be close to equal, though I haven't the time or inclination to do this math (maybe somebody out there can).

Well, I think you do know where I'm coming from! If we're talking about the work of Bono, Edge, Larry and Adam we'd have to include Passengers. Call it an album, don't call it an album - but it was material the 4 lads released together. Any discussion of their work in the 90s that ignores it is necessarily incomplete. Heck, 2 of the songs made it to the 1990s best-of and then were played live this decade!

But in any case, there is no competition when it comes to B sides. There were more on Achtung's singles alone than the 00s gave us altogether! I don't want to take the time adding it up, but I would guess there were 2 or 3 times as many non-LP tracks in the 90s than 00s. The 00s really had so very few....

Of course, the 80s had even more......
 
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