U2 and Religion

[LemonMelon]

It is implied. Caroni said if U2 was doing a satanic act with the upside down cross she won't be able to like the band anymore. That's what I'm talking about. You can't hate (a common word used when describing an artist you really don't like) an artist simply because they have a religious belief system you don't like. You can't define a person by their religion. I said it all in my last post.

No, it wasn't implied. You can't tell someone else when/if they hate something. It just isn't done.

 

[Caroni]

^Thank you

I have to clarify that I don´t hate anyone, I don´t discriminate people or music because of their believes or lack of them

 

[Bottle Bono]

The people we'd choose to describe the condition of the world are not often the people God would choose. The chosen may be punk rockers or hip-hop people. But nonetheless, the state of the world will be described."

"Rock and roll loves its juvenilia, its caricatures, its cartoons. The protest singer, the pop star, the sex god, your mature messiah types. We love the extremes, and we're expected to choose: the mud of the blues or the oxygen of gospel, the hellhounds on our trail or the band of angels."

But U2 weren't very ironic people back in the early daze. They were pretty serious people, and they didn't see that they could have been a little more subtle about things like that."

"A lot of their work in the '80s was very naive. But I like that now. It's ecstatic music. It has a sense of wonder and a joy about it."

 

[Bottle Bono]

"I don't doubt God. I have firm faith absolutely in God. It's religion I'm doubting."
-- Bono, 2002

 

[Bottle Bono]

"You hold onto religion, you know, rules, regulations, traditions. I think what God is interested in is people's hearts, and that's hard enough."
-- Bono, 2002

 

[Rosebud]

It is implied. Caroni said if U2 was doing a satanic act with the upside down cross she won't be able to like the band anymore. That's what I'm talking about. You can't hate (a common word used when describing an artist you really don't like) an artist simply because they have a religious belief system you don't like. You can't define a person by their religion. I said it all in my last post.

To go on a small rant. Personally, Satanism makes far more sense than Christianity does. Though I don't believe in any of them. Satanism is about humanity. Christianity takes away a person's humanity. Humans are Lucifer. We are the rebellion. Why have so much distrust towards a figure that embodies us? Humans shouldn't be forgiven of the mistakes in our lives. We need to carry them with us. In the bible, God is the villain. God is a terrible creature. Lucifer and Jesus are the heroes. Jesus is Zeus. He is meant to overthrow the father. Jesus's taste of humanity will lead him to destroy the father who himself would destroy the same humanity if only to be worshipped by all. That is how the story is meant to go. In the end, God is dead and humanity lives on.

I honestly don't know what to say to this.

I'm not angry or anything -- I'm very sad actually. What happened in your life to make you think this about God, Christ, and the Bible? Have you read the Scriptures?

I appreciate and respect that you're accepting the band's faith even though you don't share it, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just appalled that anyone can think such a thing about the story of God and Christ. Nothing comes to mind that is further from the truth than what you described. Can you tell me where you're getting this information?

 

[popacrobat]

I would not be able to support a Satanist. Sorry, I'd be with Caroni on this one. I think this thread isn't headed for a happy ending though.

 

[Jon Seidman]

Does anyone think Bono's (or Edge's) strong belief in God in any way reflects on his intelligence?

 

[digitize]

Does anyone think Bono's (or Edge's) strong belief in God in any way reflects on his intelligence?

No. They're both highly intelligent men, with or without their religious beliefs, although one might argue that Bono has been inspired to look more deeply at life (and reflect that in his lyrics) in part because of his faith.

 

[Screwtape2]

I honestly don't know what to say to this.

I'm not angry or anything -- I'm very sad actually. What happened in your life to make you think this about God, Christ, and the Bible? Have you read the Scriptures?

I appreciate and respect that you're accepting the band's faith even though you don't share it, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just appalled that anyone can think such a thing about the story of God and Christ. Nothing comes to mind that is further from the truth than what you described. Can you tell me where you're getting this information?

It is just what I take away from the grand story the bible tells. It is where the story is going but the writers put spreading their beliefs over the eventuality. It is like how Einstein set up the science and equations but couldn't except that the universe wasn't constant because it went against what he believed. Jesus doesn't get martyred and be like "we're cool." Humanity in heaven changes everything.

 

[Screwtape2]

Does anyone think Bono's (or Edge's) strong belief in God in any way reflects on his intelligence?

I don't think it is a matter of intelligence. I think it is a matter of fear.

 

[BVS]

Does anyone think Bono's (or Edge's) strong belief in God in any way reflects on his intelligence?

Did it reflect on Einstein's intelligence?

 

[Rosebud]

It is just what I take away from the grand story the bible tells. It is where the story is going but the writers put spreading their beliefs over the eventuality. It is like how Einstein set up the science and equations but couldn't except that the universe wasn't constant because it went against what he believed. Jesus doesn't get martyred and be like "we're cool." Humanity in heaven changes everything.

I'm really sorry, but I still don't get what you're saying.

My question still stands: have you read the Scriptures?
I just don't understand how you're getting the idea that the Bible shows God as "the villain" and "a terrible creature", Lucifer as the hero, and Jesus "meant to overthrow the father", etc.

I know we all have our own opinions, and I do respect yours, but it eludes me how one could possibly make that interpretation.

 

[LemonMelon]

I honestly don't know what to say to this.

I'm not angry or anything -- I'm very sad actually. What happened in your life to make you think this about God, Christ, and the Bible? Have you read the Scriptures?

I appreciate and respect that you're accepting the band's faith even though you don't share it, so I'm not arguing with you. I'm just appalled that anyone can think such a thing about the story of God and Christ. Nothing comes to mind that is further from the truth than what you described. Can you tell me where you're getting this information?

That section of Screwy's post reads like liner notes from a bad emo album.

 

[beli]

If I may pipe up the Bible does show God in a a negative light. The Noah story in particularly is not a pleasant reflection on Gods personality and values.

 

[LemonMelon]

If I may pipe up the Bible does show God in a a negative light. The Noah story in particularly is not a pleasant reflection on Gods personality and values.

The Bible is whatever you want it to be. Due to the length of time it took to put it together, the mood changes regularly, and (like history itself) what once seemed normal is soon considered barbaric. This is how men can kill their fellow man in the name of Jehovah, while others dedicate their life to strengthening the human race because of what they learned while reading the book. It's also why Screwy can write what he does, while others are baffled by his opinion.

 

[Rosebud]

The Bible is whatever you want it to be. Due to the length of time it took to put it together, the mood changes regularly, and (like history itself) what once seemed normal is soon considered barbaric. This is how men can kill their fellow man in the name of Jehovah, while others dedicate their life to strengthening the human race because of what they learned while reading the book. It's also why Screwy can write what he does, while others are baffled by his opinion.

Definitely. This is very true when thinking about the entire Bible, though Screw was talking about Christianity in particular, so I was taking a more New Testament approach. There it's pretty clear: "God is Love." What more do you want?

 

[beli]

Fashions of what is acceptable due change over time with everyday peeps, yes. I was more refering to gods and enlightened ones. Are they not displaying the wisdom of the ages?

Hopefully Im not derailing this thread. I just wanted to agree with Screwtape.

 

[LemonMelon]

Fashions of what is acceptable due change over time with everyday peeps, yes. I was more refering to gods and enlightened ones. Are they not displaying the wisdom of the ages?

Hopefully Im not derailing this thread. I just wanted to agree with Screwtape.

I actually think, in a backwards way, Screws was right about a few things. Some of his points have absolutely nothing to do with what's actually in the book and shows that he just read into it what he wanted to, but I didn't feel like dissecting his post, because the discussion wouldn't go anywhere. It never does.

And I can totally see how God's actions in the first half of the book can seem overbearing and even a bit frightening. I just think that, in the end, sending his son as he did shows that even in those seemingly harsh moments, he was looking out for mankind as a whole the entire time.

 

[Screwtape2]

I'm really sorry, but I still don't get what you're saying.

My question still stands: have you read the Scriptures?
I just don't understand how you're getting the idea that the Bible shows God as "the villain" and "a terrible creature", Lucifer as the hero, and Jesus "meant to overthrow the father", etc.

I know we all have our own opinions, and I do respect yours, but it eludes me how one could possibly make that interpretation.

I have not read the whole bible but I know what happens. So I am about as educated on it as most Christians. Sorry that's a cheap shot. I actually was forced to go to church for awhile.

God is the ruthless establishment. How many people did he kill in the bible? Who threw man out of paradise? Humans fight against the authoritarian. It is part of what makes us human. We need are freedom. God gives us free will but will wipe us off the face of the Earth if we don't follow his rules. That is what makes him the villain.

Lucifer is the hero because he rebelled. He is the one who would shatter the cruel order God has established. It is a constant character in human expression.

Jesus will overthrow God because of his humanity. Humanity is based in rebellion and freedom. Also how could Jesus let God keep people out of heaven? Jesus had forgiveness and compassion. Jesus knew what love and friendship were. For God to lack those things meant Jesus and Lucifer would have to take over whether God was okay with that or not. You cannot control that which loves. That's God's downfall.

 

[LemonMelon]

Lucifer is the hero because he rebelled. He is the one who would shatter the cruel order God has established. It is a constant character in human expression.

Great. Do you know WHY he wanted to rebel? That's kind of important to know, as motive is what drives human actions. The answer? Delusions of grandeur. He did not, by any means, have the well being of anyone but himself in mind. You can choose to believe that he did, but it was based in selfishness from the start.

Jesus will overthrow God because of his humanity. Humanity is based in rebellion and freedom. Also how could Jesus let God keep people out of heaven? Jesus had forgiveness and compassion. Jesus knew what love and friendship were. For God to lack those things meant Jesus and Lucifer would have to take over whether God was okay with that or not. You cannot control that which loves. That's God's downfall.

It is indeed true that humanity itself is based in rebellion and freedom. However, I find your idea of love extremely amusing at best. It shows up in your posts on a regular basis; you think that being kind and sweet to everyone, regardless of their actions, is pure love. You see the good in everyone. You and your girlfriend would never fight. You also have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

 

[beli]

And I can totally see how God's actions in the first half of the book can seem overbearing and even a bit frightening. I just think that, in the end, sending his son as he did shows that even in those seemingly harsh moments, he was looking out for mankind as a whole the entire time.

I dont find Gods actions in the first half of the book overbearing and frightening. I find the actions inhumane and lacking in wisdom (just like me for posting such a comment in a predominately Christian environment )

I dont believe the end justifies the means. Especially not if people die in the process.

(Im about to go to work so if I dont return to this thread for a while, thats why. Have a blissful day)

 

[LemonMelon]

I dont believe the end justifies the means. Especially not if people die in the process.

A very key point. Glad you brought that up. This is why I'm glad I don't wield all the power in the universe, as decisions like that would be a total bitch.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

Lucifer is the hero

This reads really funny to me for some reason.

 

[Diemen]

Jesus will overthrow God because of his humanity. Humanity is based in rebellion and freedom. Also how could Jesus let God keep people out of heaven? Jesus had forgiveness and compassion. Jesus knew what love and friendship were. For God to lack those things meant Jesus and Lucifer would have to take over whether God was okay with that or not. You cannot control that which loves. That's God's downfall.

You need to be a little less in love with your own thoughts.

 

[beli]

"God is Love." What more do you want?

Wisdom!

Thank you for making your comments. I've had a cog click into place this morning. Ive never understood the attraction of Christianity. Your comment explain it somewhat. Thank you.

I really must go now. Its alway a bad move to open the internets in the morning. lol.

 

[Screwtape2]

Great. Do you know WHY he wanted to rebel? That's kind of important to know, as motive is what drives human actions. The answer? Delusions of grandeur. He did not, by any means, have the well being of anyone but himself in mind. You can choose to believe that he did, but it was based in selfishness from the start.



It is indeed true that humanity itself is based in rebellion and freedom. However, I find your idea of love extremely amusing at best. It shows up in your posts on a regular basis; you think that being kind and sweet to everyone regardless of their actions is pure love. You see the good in everyone. You and your girlfriend would never fight. You also have no idea what the hell you're talking about.

Every rebel acts out of selfishness.

How can you be so sure I'm wrong about the power of love?

 

[Screwtape2]

You need to be a little less in love with your own thoughts.

Great reaction to unique ideas!

 

[LemonMelon]

Every rebel acts out of selfishness.

But what's heroic about that? Was assassinating John Lennon heroic? Chapman felt that it was the right thing to do, and it was pretty damn rebellious, you have to admit. No, Lucifer was a rebel acting in selfishness; the very last thing you look for in a hero. A hero does things because they need to be done for the good of everyone else, not just the one taking action.

How can you be so sure I'm wrong about the power of love?

Because that's not how the world operates. That's not how people operate. People will use you and take advantage of your kindness, and they will continue on in life in even worse shape than they were before they met you. I believe that true love is making the people that you meet better human beings than they were previously, regardless of how it makes you appear, or how they treat you. That is unselfish love for your fellow man.

 

[ahittle]

Okay, everyone go read the Bible and meet back here in three months.