The Eras of U2...

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the tourist said:
The eras as I see them:

01. Boy/October/War
02. The Unforgettable Fire/The Joshua Tree/Rattle & Hum
03. Achtung Baby/Zooropa/(Passengers)
04. Pop/All That You Can't Leave Behind/How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb/No Line On The Horizon

I liken the 4th era to the 1st. Strong beginning and ending, weak middle (albumwise). Basically, ATYCLB/HTDAAB are the 4th era's October.
I liken the 2nd and 3rd era. Two strong albums that develop, and then deconstruction of that.

I've seen lots of argument in hear that No Line On The Horizon doesn't fit with the HTDAAB/ATYCLB era. Specifically, that certain songs wouldn't be interchangeable. White As Snow and Cedars Of Lebanon could fit on ATYCLB as well as Peace On Earth, When I Look At The World, and Grace. White As Snow and Cedars Of Lebanon could fit on HTDAAB as well as One Step Closer. Then there is the Discotheque/Elevation/Vertigo/Get On Your Boots quadrilogy.

No Line isn't a departure from the ATYCLB/HTDAAB era. It's an evolution from it. The songs and their tones are still in the same realm, but there is progression forward. Again, not a departure.
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Couldn't disagree more. COL and WAS are dark songs written from a character's POV. Peace on Earth and When I Look At The World are personal political and universal statements being delivered by Bono to the rest of the world. COL and WAS aren't preaching about anything. They're stories being told by a character.

I'm not gonna lie, there are some songs off NLOTH that could've fit on BOMB, but I don't feel like having that conversation again. Give you a hint, they fall in the midsection of the album and they're all next to eachother.
 
it may be about drugs, but its not that dark for me. bittersweet, sad but not quite dark. Still feel the song has a tone of hope despite the subject matter.
 
ozeeko said:
Couldn't disagree more. COL and WAS are dark songs written from a character's POV. Peace on Earth and When I Look At The World are personal political and universal statements being delivered by Bono to the rest of the world. COL and WAS aren't preaching about anything. They're stories being told by a character.
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Okay, so lyrically they're different. The music, however, is very similar. And I noticed you didn't mention One Step Closer in your refuting. Interesting.
 
isn't bad about heroin? One of the most uplifting songs in u2's catalog? A point i wouldn't even respond to, much less aurgue about. (boy ,when u2 starts up bad in concert,i know depression really sets in :drool:!) Yea,MOS is a darkER drug song then bad. Thats about all i could agree with.
 
the tourist said:
Okay, so lyrically they're different. The music, however, is very similar. And I noticed you didn't mention One Step Closer in your refuting. Interesting.
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One Step Closer bores the arse offa me. WAS and COL have dramatic musical changes in them that echo the pessimistic and dark tones of the lyrics, while One Step Closer just drones on and on and on and on....

The one redeeming thing bout OSC is the lyrics, but COL and WAS have both great lyrics and great music, two important aspects of songwriting that ultimately failed to ever come together and coexist on the BOMB.

...oh, in my opinion.
 
Re: MOS, I'm not sure I'd describe it as dark in a normal sense, I see it as somewhat tortured.
 
ozeeko said:
One Step Closer bores the arse offa me. WAS and COL have dramatic musical changes in them that echo the pessimistic and dark tones of the lyrics, while One Step Closer just drones on and on and on and on....

The one redeeming thing bout OSC is the lyrics, but COL and WAS have both great lyrics and great music, two important aspects of songwriting that ultimately failed to ever come together and coexist on the BOMB.

...oh, in my opinion.
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Oh I'll agree for sure that the lyrics from No Line On The Horizon are much better than the predecessors in general (personally, I don't like the lyrics much on OSC). I just don't think the music itself is enough of a departure to split the era. It's not a Rattle & Hum->Achtung Baby split. I don't even see it as a War->The Unforgettable Fire split.

One Step Closer and Cedars Of Lebanon could be song-brothers to me, though. One is lighter and one is darker, but otherwise very similar musically.
 
allbecauseofu2 said:
isn't bad about heroin? One of the most uplifting songs in u2's catalog? A point i wouldn't even respond to, much less aurgue about. (boy ,when u2 starts up bad in concert,i know depression really sets in :drool:!) Yea,MOS is a darkER drug song then bad. Thats about all i could agree with.
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I thought u'd bring that up. And yes, Bad is an uplifting song despite the subject matter. Running To Stand Still is quiet and beautiful despite the ugly subject matter. MOS is unique in this case for it is a dark song about a dark subject matter. Musically I feel that MOS captures perfectly the feeling of being strung out and lost, spiraling towards a dead end. Bono sings like someone crying out in a pit of despair. It's pretty bleak to me. And lyrically there is nothing truly hopeful about it. If there's any hope to be found at the end of the song, it's pretty much up to the listener to find it. And this listener finds there's really nothing at the end of that tunnel. That is, until UC begins, if u want to play into the "concept" of NLOTH, if there even is one.

Anyway, I was just originally pointing out that there's really nothing off ATYCLB as simultaneously lyrically and musically dark as MOS.
 
popacrobat said:
Re: MOS, I'm not sure I'd describe it as dark in a normal sense, I see it as somewhat tortured.
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I see it as both tortured and dark. I'm not sure what the criteria is to be dark it seems. Does a song have to be about a murder to be dark? Because I find a lot of AB songs to be dark. So Cruel, for example.

MOS to me is a song about a junkie in his final moments before death. Does he die? I dunno, but the song comes across like he sure might.
 
For me, the biggest difference between 2 albums that are still in the same era, was joshua tree and rattle.
 
the tourist said:
Oh I'll agree for sure that the lyrics from No Line On The Horizon are much better than the predecessors in general (personally, I don't like the lyrics much on OSC). I just don't think the music itself is enough of a departure to split the era. It's not a Rattle & Hum->Achtung Baby split. I don't even see it as a War->The Unforgettable Fire split.

One Step Closer and Cedars Of Lebanon could be song-brothers to me, though. One is lighter and one is darker, but otherwise very similar musically.
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I agree the album as a whole isn't a complete departure. It could've been. Anyway I was just referring to the songs I feel were at least different.

I know what you're saying about the music in OSC and COL, but I feel like they're only alike on a superficial level, the very hushed low-key arrangements and Bono's understated singing, crooning, speaking, whatever. In this case, u could say The First Time is a distant cousin. But i think tone and attitude is the main focus, not to mention structurally COL is different, from the single line refrain to the flexible rhythm section to the way it ends abruptly on a chilling note.
 
ozeeko said:
I see it as both tortured and dark. I'm not sure what the criteria is to be dark it seems. Does a song have to be about a murder to be dark? Because I find a lot of AB songs to be dark. So Cruel, for example.

MOS to me is a song about a junkie in his final moments before death. Does he die? I dunno, but the song comes across like he sure might.
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I still think it's dark, but a different kind of dark. I think there's some hope in the chorus, seeing the light. I agree with you that a lot of the songs an Achtung are dark as well, and I don't think murder has to be the criteria for it.
 
isn;t stuck about suicide? isn;'t kite about loss? isn't peace on earth about the lack thier of? hows does MOS not fit on ATYCLB? Thiers nothing 'dark" on ATYCLB, yea ok.
 
The moods of those songs aren't necessarily dark. Stuck to me is a great song, but it's also about persevering through the moment and getting through it. "It's just a moment, this time shall pass." It's for Hutchense and I think Bono said it's a conversation he wished he had with him before he committed suicide, so I don't think it's necessarily about suicide itself, but more inspired by a friends suicide.

Kite originally wasn't about loss. It was a song that Bono had written for his children I believe but then when his father passed he said something like, "I thought I wrote this song for my children, but I think my father wrote it for me" - something along those lines. I believe Bono found new meaning in the song after the fact.

I wouldn't classify either of these songs as particularly dark, especially compared to Moment of Surrender, So Cruel, Exit, etc. Peace on Earth is an alright song, and the lyric is pretty bitter, but I'm not sure the music screams dark to me, but I could see an argument for that song instead of Stuck or Kite. All That You Can't Leave Behind is to me their most joyous album start to finish.
 
popacrobat said:
The moods of those songs aren't necessarily dark. Stuck to me is a great song, but it's also about persevering through the moment and getting through it. "It's just a moment, this time shall pass." It's for Hutchense and I think Bono said it's a conversation he wished he had with him before he committed suicide, so I don't think it's necessarily about suicide itself, but more inspired by a friends suicide.

Kite originally wasn't about loss. It was a song that Bono had written for his children I believe but then when his father passed he said something like, "I thought I wrote this song for my children, but I think my father wrote it for me" - something along those lines. I believe Bono found new meaning in the song after the fact.

I wouldn't classify either of these songs as particularly dark, especially compared to Moment of Surrender, So Cruel, Exit, etc. Peace on Earth is an alright song, and the lyric is pretty bitter, but I'm not sure the music screams dark to me, but I could see an argument for that song instead of Stuck or Kite. All That You Can't Leave Behind is to me their most joyous album start to finish.
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Thanks for saving me the trouble of responding. Ditto what u say.
 
He wrote kite with the childhood stuff in mind but edge said in interviews he knew it was about his father. As in edge knew it was about that, but bono just didn't relize it.
 
ozeeko said:
Thanks for saving me the trouble of responding. Ditto what u say.
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no problem. I call them like I see them.

allbecauseofu2 said:
He wrote kite with the childhood stuff in mind but edge said in interviews he knew it was about his father. As in edge knew it was about that, but bono just didn't relize it.
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Even if Edge knew it was about that and Bono didn't, I don't see it as dark even still. Melancholy or bittersweet, but a gorgeous song nonetheless. We'll just have to agree to disagree since dark is about the last word I'd use to describe All that you can't leave behind.
 
Wow this thread went downhill fast...:sad:

I've read some silly arguments over the years and MOS could fit on ATYCLB is probably top 5.
 
Galeongirl said:
Usually people group them together a little differently, namely BOctoWar for the first three, as they were remastered together... UF-JT-Rattle and Hum as the Desert trillogy/America one(don't ask me why, I don't know). AB and Zooropa together as the ZooTv period, Passengers isn't a U2 album so then Pop usually gets grouped together with the ZooTv albums as the 90's period. Then ATYCLB and Bomb as the 'back to the roots' thing.

Does that help?
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:yes: Only ATYCLB&Bomb&NLOTH would be beter described as "pop/straightforward songwriting" triloy.
 
once again, not gonna say stuff just to fit in here. The closest i come to saying MOS dosn't fit on ATYCLB is that it could be a song that wrote for the album and then left off for perhaps, being a tad too dark.
 
allbecauseofu2 said:
once again, not gonna say stuff just to fit in here. The closest i come to saying MOS dosn't fit on ATYCLB is that it could be a song that wrote for the album and then left off for perhaps, being a tad too dark.
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I don't think anybody's asking you to say stuff just to fit in
 
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