Steve Lillywhite says "NLOTH" was 'failure'
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gherman
New Yorker
The album sold 5 million copies and was in the Top 3, worldwide, for the year it was released, 2009. That's pretty incredible in this day and age with virtually no radio play. The entire release process did seem botched, though. Christmas releases get the big sales and big promotions. Thought lesson was learned with Pop.
The Rose Bowl DVD hit #1 in some 28+ countries (No line hit #1 in 34...missing the previous record by one country, also held by U2). The Concert DVD also charted as recently as 2 weeks ago as the #5 ALBUM in one European country, and debuted at #7 as an ALBUM on Billboard's entire EUROPE Top 100 Album chart.
The concert has sold out everywhere it's been...and will likely be the highest grossing and attended tour in history after hitting Australia, South America, Mexico, and the U.S. again next summer.
What does it take to define success for a Rock Band in 2009/2010? Especially one where each member is at or pushing 50 years old? NLOTH and POP, and the corresponding concert DVD's, are some of U2's best work IMHO. Sick of hearing U2, or extended members of the band, apologizing for albums that come out and are originally praised by all the critics and debut at #1 across the entire globe. Wish U2 would stop worrying about trying to top themselves and realize that 99.9% of all bands in the universe would give anything to have their kind of success, and would probably retire after achieving U2's worst-ever single album sales (5 million?) or tours (9 figures) just once in their career.
I could care less if some blogger or journalist bashes U2...that will always happen...it just really pisses me off when Bono "apologizes" for perceived "failures" by the band themselves. I just bought and watched the Rose Bowl DVD and by ANY measure, having 100,000 fans singing along to Unknown Caller, Still haven't found...heck, just about all the songs...was an amazing viewing experience. I feel lucky to have seen U2 so many times myself since 1987...and even more happy to be able to take by then 10-year old daughter to see them last year in Atlanta. The crowd was amazing there, too, and she had the best time of her life at that show.
Sorry for the rant. For me, U2 is the only band that matters, so I'm obviously biased...and I really don't like the notion of the band coming out and saying album xyz was a failure way after the fact just because it doesn't break every sales record or win 10 grammy awards. I have a feeling the 30 years from now, U2 will be widely regarded historically as the greatest band of all time, and that would be the case if they decided to call it quits tomorrow. They aren't nearly done yet...and don't appear to be slowing down, either. Hope the next album drops soon and includes Mercy!
The Rose Bowl DVD hit #1 in some 28+ countries (No line hit #1 in 34...missing the previous record by one country, also held by U2). The Concert DVD also charted as recently as 2 weeks ago as the #5 ALBUM in one European country, and debuted at #7 as an ALBUM on Billboard's entire EUROPE Top 100 Album chart.
The concert has sold out everywhere it's been...and will likely be the highest grossing and attended tour in history after hitting Australia, South America, Mexico, and the U.S. again next summer.
What does it take to define success for a Rock Band in 2009/2010? Especially one where each member is at or pushing 50 years old? NLOTH and POP, and the corresponding concert DVD's, are some of U2's best work IMHO. Sick of hearing U2, or extended members of the band, apologizing for albums that come out and are originally praised by all the critics and debut at #1 across the entire globe. Wish U2 would stop worrying about trying to top themselves and realize that 99.9% of all bands in the universe would give anything to have their kind of success, and would probably retire after achieving U2's worst-ever single album sales (5 million?) or tours (9 figures) just once in their career.
I could care less if some blogger or journalist bashes U2...that will always happen...it just really pisses me off when Bono "apologizes" for perceived "failures" by the band themselves. I just bought and watched the Rose Bowl DVD and by ANY measure, having 100,000 fans singing along to Unknown Caller, Still haven't found...heck, just about all the songs...was an amazing viewing experience. I feel lucky to have seen U2 so many times myself since 1987...and even more happy to be able to take by then 10-year old daughter to see them last year in Atlanta. The crowd was amazing there, too, and she had the best time of her life at that show.
Sorry for the rant. For me, U2 is the only band that matters, so I'm obviously biased...and I really don't like the notion of the band coming out and saying album xyz was a failure way after the fact just because it doesn't break every sales record or win 10 grammy awards. I have a feeling the 30 years from now, U2 will be widely regarded historically as the greatest band of all time, and that would be the case if they decided to call it quits tomorrow. They aren't nearly done yet...and don't appear to be slowing down, either. Hope the next album drops soon and includes Mercy!
I was talking about lack of promotion for the single.
Sure, they promoted the album plenty, but like I said in the post, no promotion leading up to the release of Boots to the radio.
Would it make any difference ? Really ? All the promotion in the world can't save a bad single...
Aargh! these comments depress me. So what if sales were not as blockbuster as sometimes U2 achieves? Just because an album doesn't go quadruple platinum doesn't mean that they shouldn't be proud of it. It's very disheartening, because it seems like the band are kind of on the same page as Lillywhite - they backed off on releasing Songs of Ascent because they figured it would not be a blockbuster either.
Lillywhite says that the Morocco vibe somehow was not conveyed effectively, but the reason for that seems like that they second guessed themselves and brought in Lillywhite to make the album more HTDAAB-like - more mainstream. I feel like U2 could make such brilliant music if they weren't so obsessed with sales. I know they always wanted to be big - but I feel like in the 80s and 90s they were more willing to experiment without analyzing so much whether they had any hit singles - and it made their music better. I'm sure there are many albums that Lillywhite and Bono lovs which were not blockbusters - so what's wrong with making a fantastic album that doesn't have any mega hits on it. Just follow your muse - not album sales!
Lillywhite says that the Morocco vibe somehow was not conveyed effectively, but the reason for that seems like that they second guessed themselves and brought in Lillywhite to make the album more HTDAAB-like - more mainstream. I feel like U2 could make such brilliant music if they weren't so obsessed with sales. I know they always wanted to be big - but I feel like in the 80s and 90s they were more willing to experiment without analyzing so much whether they had any hit singles - and it made their music better. I'm sure there are many albums that Lillywhite and Bono lovs which were not blockbusters - so what's wrong with making a fantastic album that doesn't have any mega hits on it. Just follow your muse - not album sales!
A properly promoted No Line or Magnificent.
Never said I liked Boots as the 1st single choice.
Who knows what would have made a difference regarding Boots?
It wasn't a good first single, but given the crap that is on the radio today, it had as good of a chance as any if they promoted it.
Valoria
The Fly
Interesting and insightful comments, all. One comment that really stood out to me (and with which I agree) is the poster earlier who said they were disheartened with how U2 themselves seem to bash the work that doesn't sell as well. I seem to recall that, recently, Bono said something to the effect of: NLOTH was too dense a record; too complicated; if I had been a teen listening to it I would have felt it was 'art house'...I mean, really??? Teens are smart and they can certainly appreciate deep artistic musical statements, if they are so inclined. Personally, I prefer my music to be somewhat complicated and not just radio-friendly Top-40 fare (though that has its place). I wish U2 would leave "Breathe," and the other "NLOTH" songs in the opening of the 360 tour instead of replacing with with "Beautiful Day." I say to them: Challenge your fans, even the casual ones, with your music. Don't be ashamed of it just because it didn't sell as well, for whatever reason. We can handle in-depth sonic and musical statements; the world is a complicated place, especially now, and some of us appreciate music that goes beyond arm-waving, sing-along choruses to express something more complex, more brooding, more introspective and thoughtful. I got that whole "vibe" from listening to "NLOTH" as a whole; there is a maturity about it. I, for one, appreciated that angle and hope they will continue with it instead of shy away from it.
Mrs. Garrison
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
coolian2
Blue Crack Supplier
they're rich, it's not like they really have to be profitable.
BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
I agree for the most part with what you wrote here, except that it's "couldn't care less".
I think U2 are (perhaps unfortunately) at the level of success, and at the stage in their career, where they don't look at things in the way "beLIEve" is suggesting. I don't think they sit down and say, "You know what? Our album didn't set the world on fire, but it is the ___-best selling LP of the year, and because of the Internet and various other multi-media modes, albums sales aren't that important to us. The Guinness is on me!"
I mean, they probably should do that (and rather more scaling down of expectations), but I suspect they don't. I suspect they sit down with McGuinness and LiveNation reps and whoever else, and talk seriously about how they can massively increase their profile and sales to match their Titanic-sized expectations and ambitions.
At the end of the day, you can argue all you want about NLOTH being "the 3rd best selling" album or whatever, but the plain reality is that it isn't an important or influential album. It could be deleted from U2's catalog entirely and it wouldn't in the least affect their legacy or "status" in the rock pantheon.
It's just another U2 album... which is never going to be enough for them, I fear.
I mean, they probably should do that (and rather more scaling down of expectations), but I suspect they don't. I suspect they sit down with McGuinness and LiveNation reps and whoever else, and talk seriously about how they can massively increase their profile and sales to match their Titanic-sized expectations and ambitions.
At the end of the day, you can argue all you want about NLOTH being "the 3rd best selling" album or whatever, but the plain reality is that it isn't an important or influential album. It could be deleted from U2's catalog entirely and it wouldn't in the least affect their legacy or "status" in the rock pantheon.
It's just another U2 album... which is never going to be enough for them, I fear.
Folks thinking Lillywhite isn't drawing a link between popularity and artistic worth are wrong.
“At the end of the day, the public are always right especially when you have a platform as big as U2..."
"It’s a pity because the whole idea of Morocco as a big idea was great. When the big idea for U2 is good, that is when they succeed the most, but I don’t think the spirit of what they set out to achieve was translated. Something happened that meant it did not come across on the record.”
He's saying the public (ie album sales) is the best judge of the quality of a U2 record and that because this album didn't sell well, the band was wrong to experiment in Morrocco or, at the very least, that that experimentation wasn't carried through properly.
I happen to agree with that, but it's not like HTDAAB was very good, either, while he's implying that U2's previous album was great artistically and, therefore, commercially.
This is the idiot who keeps taking texture out of songs, folks. He might have been good; he no longer is.
At the same time, I have to say my favorite tracks on the album -- the ones I catch myself listening to most at the gym -- are Magnificent, I'll Go Crazy, and Breathe, the most poppy.
Anyway, the guy is wrong about the link between popularity and quality.
The band is to blame as well. The Edge keeps writing the most obvious melodies and that guitar sound is so boring.
The current U2 and Lillywhite would throw out Acrobat if they made it today as not reaching out to the dullards to whom they wish to sell. It took me years to fully appreciate that song, but I'm so glad the band did it!
Even if you read "U2 by U2", the band justifies what it did by an odd obsession with popularity and charts and awards.
“At the end of the day, the public are always right especially when you have a platform as big as U2..."
"It’s a pity because the whole idea of Morocco as a big idea was great. When the big idea for U2 is good, that is when they succeed the most, but I don’t think the spirit of what they set out to achieve was translated. Something happened that meant it did not come across on the record.”
He's saying the public (ie album sales) is the best judge of the quality of a U2 record and that because this album didn't sell well, the band was wrong to experiment in Morrocco or, at the very least, that that experimentation wasn't carried through properly.
I happen to agree with that, but it's not like HTDAAB was very good, either, while he's implying that U2's previous album was great artistically and, therefore, commercially.
This is the idiot who keeps taking texture out of songs, folks. He might have been good; he no longer is.
At the same time, I have to say my favorite tracks on the album -- the ones I catch myself listening to most at the gym -- are Magnificent, I'll Go Crazy, and Breathe, the most poppy.
Anyway, the guy is wrong about the link between popularity and quality.
No offense, but I disagree with your interpretation. If anything, Lillywhite is known to push for mainstreaming things. Based on what I've heard and read, Lillywhite always tries to make things more conventional this decade.
The band is to blame as well. The Edge keeps writing the most obvious melodies and that guitar sound is so boring.
The current U2 and Lillywhite would throw out Acrobat if they made it today as not reaching out to the dullards to whom they wish to sell. It took me years to fully appreciate that song, but I'm so glad the band did it!
Yes!
Even if you read "U2 by U2", the band justifies what it did by an odd obsession with popularity and charts and awards.
As stated before......the singles were put out incorrectly. That was the main problem. I still shake my head at Boots being the lead single for this album.
NLOTH isn't my favourite U2 album........but Magnificent could have put it into the stratosphere......
New album need STAT before the North American Leg.
NLOTH isn't my favourite U2 album........but Magnificent could have put it into the stratosphere......
New album need STAT before the North American Leg.
It wasn't just the order of the singles. U2 is formulaic in its approach nowadays and the band isn't conscious of it.
The Edge thinks he's making this really classic guitar riff with Boots, when it's garbage. And the band keeps telling itself that NLOTH is ahead of its time, when it might be a bit out of left-field by mainstream standards, but is also kaotaoing to the mainstream in so many ways, especially Edge's lack of loud and soft or interesting melodies, and the lousy mixing.
The band has really brainwashed itself into thinking it's more original than it is, but isn't fully aware of how hard they try to appeal to the mainstream by doing things on the mainstream's terms, instead of the band's own originality. So sad.
doctorwho
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
GOYB was received about as well as "Discotheque". The latter became a Top 10 hit in the U.S. because U2 were still enjoying the "high" from their JT-"Zooropa" era. It's almost by default that radio and MTV played the new U2 - it had worked wonders for them for years.
But then fans reacted against "Discotheque" and "Pop's" sales suffered. Now that 13 years has passed, the hate has died down and people appreciate "Pop", but that's not suddenly going to make it a multi-platinum album.
GOYB was too similar to "Discotheque" in terms of the "bizarre" theme. It seemed a bit too abstract and almost "silly". Combine this with the fact that it had a sound similar to "Vertigo" and many newer fans found it a turn-off. Radio, having learned their lesson back in 1997, wasn't willing to do this again. As a result, the song didn't get much air time, the album wasn't promoted as much, and it stalled overall.
This is still U2 - they can still get platinum albums. But they need that one big hit to go past platinum.
Many felt that "Staring at the Sun" would have been a better first single for "Pop". I agree - it has a George Harrison sound, is very accessible, and it wouldn't have turned fans away, even if it wasn't considered to be one of U2's best singles. Analogously, "Magnificent" would have done the same. It's soaring theme and vocals may have been a bit too U2 sounding, but that might have attracted more old fans and kept new fans interested. GOYB was too reminiscent of the last album and discouraged older fans.
Still I admit, this is conjecture. There's no way to know.
Nonetheless, I hope U2 lead with a solid first single. If having big sales is still important, then they must lead with something that is accessible for both hard-core and casual fans yet will still appeal to the average music fan.
LuckyNumber7
Blue Crack Addict
If they'd just have gotten the word out about NLOTH, it would've seen more commercial success.
But it definitely lacks that 'Vertigo' or 'Beautiful Day' that the recent albums have featured. Crazy and Magnificent are close, but both of them are acquired likings much like the rest of U2's music.
I mean... it's crap that Anberlin and Linkin Park has commercials promoting their new albums but U2 doesnt. Gotta do better than that.
But it definitely lacks that 'Vertigo' or 'Beautiful Day' that the recent albums have featured. Crazy and Magnificent are close, but both of them are acquired likings much like the rest of U2's music.
I mean... it's crap that Anberlin and Linkin Park has commercials promoting their new albums but U2 doesnt. Gotta do better than that.
That's not what he said.
GirlsAloudFan
Blue Crack Addict
Lillywhite speaks sooth.
mama cass
Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
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well they need to get a better translator, or learn to speak the language themselves
last unicorn
Blue Crack Addict
Man, I just HATE it when someone who's been part of a project totally dismisses the whole project just because it failed to live up to their commercial expectations. That's so lame of Lillywhite, I don't think the band is happy about his comments. Sounds like he's really bitter about the whole thing. There's no argument here about NLOTH failing to sell a lot of copies, because that's most likely true, but it's NOT an artistic failure and certainly didn't get bad reviews as he's claiming. In fact, it's one of U2's most critically praised and acclaimed albums. I just hate the way he's back pedalling here. I wish he could just stand up and say: Heck, it didn't sell many copies, but it's still a great album and I still believe in those songs, just like the band did. And I absolutely don't think the band wanted to create a whole album with a North African feeling to it. This seems to be HIS idea, and it obviously didn't work out. I see a big difference regarding the album concept between Steve and the band here. The band has even said they didn't want to create a North African album.
I kind of feel he's betraying the band with his comments. Really bad attitude, Steve
I kind of feel he's betraying the band with his comments. Really bad attitude, Steve
gherman
New Yorker
Magnificent has had some pretty good staying power on youtube with the 360 going on
purpleoscar
Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS
Man, I just HATE it when someone who's been part of a project totally dismisses the whole project just because it failed to live up to their commercial expectations. That's so lame of Lillywhite, I don't think the band is happy about his comments. Sounds like he's really bitter about the whole thing. There's no argument here about NLOTH failing to sell a lot of copies, because that's most likely true, but it's NOT an artistic failure and certainly didn't get bad reviews as he's claiming. In fact, it's one of U2's most critically praised and acclaimed albums. I just hate the way he's back pedalling here. I wish he could just stand up and say: Heck, it didn't sell many copies, but it's still a great album and I still believe in those songs, just like the band did. And I absolutely don't think the band wanted to create a whole album with a North African feeling to it. This seems to be HIS idea, and it obviously didn't work out. I see a big difference regarding the album concept between Steve and the band here. The band has even said they didn't want to create a North African album.
I kind of feel he's betraying the band with his comments. Really bad attitude, Steve
Remember he said he was misquoted.
http://twitter.com/sillywhite
No spoken words
Blue Crack Supplier
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BoMac
Self-righteous bullshitter
I don't think he was misquoted, per se, but perhaps was taken out of context. He maybe had more to say but the writer just extracted that quote for the purposes of the story.
Magnificent gets a lot of hopeful talk as the lead single but it wouldn't work. It was the second single and it flopped. The problem with NLOTH being a single, and it's one of the best songs on the album, is that it doesn't have a good radio chorus.
Outside of Magnificent/Crazy there just wasn't a single candidate...even if Boots was arguably the worst lead single choice of their career.
Outside of Magnificent/Crazy there just wasn't a single candidate...even if Boots was arguably the worst lead single choice of their career.
roy
Refugee
For a long time now U2's second singles haven't done too well.
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