So what is the weakest U2 song ever, then?

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Not to go overboard, but there are few U2 songs I truly dislike inside and out. There are some, though, that I don't care if I ever heard again. They would include the following:

A Man and a Woman
Grace
Peace on Earth
Red Light
When Love Comes to Town
 
All I mean is that F_guy will find any reason to hate Bono, everything he dislikes about U2 he pens on Bono, the other three do not exist.


I would even venture to say that Bono is even less involved than he used to be especially with all the charity work he has done this decade. I think it is an equal force that keeps U2 running.
 
I completely disagree, what you could listen to was determined by social status. There was segregation, and strict genre lines. People who broke boundaries were quickly critised, from Presley to Hendrix. They got barred from playing or forced to tone down their acts.

Elvis was blasted by whites for playing "black" music and was quickly neutered once signed to a major label. Jimi got flak from blacks for playing white music and not supporting their cause. Note that the Jimi Hendrix Experience was the first integrated band to make it in the USA.

There were minor controversies, like Dylan going electric. And you can clearly hear in a lot of later Hendrix performances that he wasn't happy with the audience always demanding he play the hits and do all the crazy pyrotechnics.

Fans were as possive of their idols as they are now, also, you would only allowed to be a fan of either Beatles OR Stones. Not both. Fans of band like the Faces or the Who would get into violent fights with "opposing" bands. This was like ManU v City, Celtic v Rangers, Arsenal v Spurs. You *cannot* support both sides.

A lot of this was hyped up and artificial, but you can say the same thing about any of this. The results were real and did affect the musicians. In some cases they responded by deliberately breaking down boundaries, but that doesn't mean it was universally accepted, quite the contrary.

I think we're talking about different periods within the 60s. The first half of the 60s was one thing and the second was something different. The racial ingredient was indeed present in the US, especially in the early/mid 60s but by the end of the decade black music was permeating heavily the white scene. Funk and soul rapidly garnered white audiences and much more so did disco later in the mid 70s.

The controversy about Dylan going electric was also the early 60s and so was the Ray Charles episode about "perverting white youth" with his music. Elvis dissed because of playing black music was even before. Hendrix attacked by blacks was indeed in the mid/late 60s, but this had to do with a different agenda.

The opposing bands which got into fights, the motivation of which certainly included musical band loyalties, like the British mods and rockers and the hyped Beatles vs. Rolling Stones "controversy" you mention were well over by the mid/late 60s when the hippie culture started to dominate the scene. By this time, which is the 60s I was referring to in reply to a post mentioning The Beatles doing Revolution 9 and For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite (1968 and 1967 respectively), there seemed to be a better predisposition in general to different kinds of music. Festivals like Woodstock or Isle of Wight prove it. I can hardly imagine a festival these days encompassing on the same date artists as diverse as Sly and The Family Stone, Santana, Janis Joplin and The Who without the whole thing getting out of hand.
 
Kind of an odd thread... Every song they've written has its role in them arriving at who they are today. I just don't see how you can look at any specific song and think "geez, the world would be better if this were never made."

And what's with all the GOYB bashing? It's funky and energetic. It's nice to see Adam get into it the way he does performing this tune. I think it was a mistake making this the first single from the album however.

I think Grace is a beautiful song. I really don't understand what people dislike about it. :hmm::hmm:
 
There is quite a bit of evidence that Larry is a big reason for a lot of the ATYCLB and Bomb safer side.

But let that get in the way of your hate...

In my opinion the thesis that Larry is the main driver of U2's more, uhm, conventional and musically conservative direction in this decade is somewhat overplayed on here. He certainly never said anything uncomplimentary about Achtung or Zooropa. His issue was largely with Passengers, and to some extent, Pop. In the case of the latter, he hasn't even said that he disliked Pop, he just said that the treatment of some of the songs would have been better if they hadn't felt rushed into a release date. He has said that he considers Original Soundtracks to be an album of pretentious, and at times downright bad, music. He specifically did not say that of any of the proper U2 albums of the 1990's, including Pop.

While it's true that he is on record as saying that he suggested at a band meeting prior to the recording of ATYCLB that they try to put out an album of actual chart friendly pop tunes - as opposed to an album ironically entitled 'Pop' - I think that some have read too much into his comments re Passengers and interpreted it as a repudiation of the 1990's U2 era. You won't find any comments from Larry repudiating the entire 1990's U2 era in the U2-by-U2 book, for example.

That's why I pin it on Bono. And Edge, also. Because they are the conceptual and musical drivers of the band, let's face it. Adam and Larry may suggest a direction or idea for a song or whatever but they are not really the ones that are driving the band, and I don't mean to be unfair to either of them.
 
Just for the record,

Bono and Edge wanted to go ahead with HTDAAB with Native Son, ABOY and Yahweh (Alternative versions). Adam and Larry wanted to rework these songs. There's always evidence that it is a give and take between the four - its like NLOTH2 and how Bono wanted to go ahead with that version (Thankfully, he was stopped). My point being is that it is not always Bono and Edge that wants to clean up and rework songs to create hit singles. Larry and Adam both hold equal sway in decision making.

In my personal opinion Bono would love to release first efforts considering his thoughts on many original working tracks. And I can't say that would always be the best idea.

Although Native Son I love.
 
He also wanted Ground beneath her feet to be on ATYCLB. (and I think Levitate too)

The band were going for a more stripped down sound as early as Popmart soundchecks, the experimenting was going out of their system naturally. Eno in particular said early on in 1998 they're making "joy" music. As for HTDAAB, Adam in particular wanted more hits that time around (as opposed to only BD four years ago).
What should be noted also is that Larry was the one that kept saying the band should just be playing for the sake of playing, not with an album or tour in mind during NLOTH sessions. And the other three get their say too, they're not lemmings.
 
I think we're talking about different periods within the 60s. The first half of the 60s was one thing and the second was something different. The racial ingredient was indeed present in the US, especially in the early/mid 60s but by the end of the decade black music was permeating heavily the white scene. Funk and soul rapidly garnered white audiences and much more so did disco later in the mid 70s. The controversy about Dylan going electric was also the early 60s and so was the Ray Charles episode about "perverting white youth" with his music. Elvis dissed because of playing black music was even before. Hendrix attacked by blacks was indeed in the mid/late 60s, but this had to do with a different agenda.

I used Elvis as an eample because from 59 - 68 he was forced to make bland sappy stuff. Hendrix' first appearance the USA is 1967, Dylan going Electric is 1965.

Nonetheless, the repression was real and it affected artist such as Hendrix. Granted, while Elvis was forced to tone down his act, Jimi was expected to overdo things and put on silly shows, beacuse that's partly why he got famous. But the idea is the same: commercial and social forces defining the artist.

The opposing bands which got into fights, the motivation of which certainly included musical band loyalties, like the British mods and rockers and the hyped Beatles vs. Rolling Stones "controversy" you mention were well over by the mid/late 60s when the hippie culture started to dominate the scene. By this time, which is the 60s I was referring to in reply to a post mentioning The Beatles doing Revolution 9 and For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite (1968 and 1967 respectively), there seemed to be a better predisposition in general to different kinds of music. Festivals like Woodstock or Isle of Wight prove it.

As for the other things you've mentioned I think you have a very idyllic idea of the 60s. Not only did that only last 1,5-2 yrs tops in the USA (Montery - Woodstock) But it ended violently at Altamont in 1969. How's that for Hippies getting along just fine?

The almost gang-like culture associated with music didn't stop with mods and rockers, it continued with genres as diverse as Ska, Punk, Heavy metal. Real rockers hated Disco (we sometimes say Eddie van Halen saved us from the clutches of Disco) yet the band that discovered Van Halen (Kiss) managed to make a hard rock/Disco crossover song. As with psychedelic rock, some of those genres (punk, metal) briefly got popular with the general public (which dilutes the genre setting off the purists) People are as possessive now as they were then, once they associate themselves with a genre.

Also very few of those late 60s festivals actually featured black artists, usually not more than one: Jimi (and in his wake Buddy Miles and Buddy Rich), Little Richard, who was already well established and Otis Redding. All of them played music that fitted in easily Folk (-rock), Country (-rock), Blues (-rock) and Psychedelic rock, with some hints of Soul. Those are not examples of particular musical diversity at those festivals, in fact some bands such as the Jimi Hendrix Experience, The Band or the Doors, produced music across all of those genres and more (Jazz/Fusion, Ethnic Music) and some found their niche linking genres (Santana)

Sly is the odd one out (although not by much), but indeed Sly only came at the very end, with several hits just before Woodstock (1969). His first three albums (67-68) sold poorly. I would also argue that, while black arists from Berry to Jimi, BB and Albert King, Little Richard had a large effect on "white" rock, Sly did not have an immediate impact.

Musically I don't see that as anything special, there are always going to be artists that can make it work, breaking down barriers and crossing genres, innovating and trying to keep people guessing (Elvis, Jimi, Sly, Led Zep, Living Colour)

There was a very brief period in which some more openess was apparent, but it didn't last. We only percieve this as such, because the period was very influential in social-political terms, Revolts and riots in Europe, USA riots, Vietnam, Prague Spring, RFK, not to mention LBJ's "Great Society" legislation (65-69) The main reason behind that musical diversity however is not the social background, but simple commercial considerations. Had it been profitable Dylan would've played Woodstock as would Led Zep and Cream would've played Monterey.

I can hardly imagine a festival these days encompassing on the same date artists as diverse as Sly and The Family Stone, Santana, Janis Joplin and The Who without the whole thing getting out of hand.

There are plenty of current festivals that program as diverse as that, for example Bospop in the Netherlands. Last year their bill included are range of artists from Santana to Opeth, Neil Young to The Bangles (yes they do still perform), ZZ Top to Apocalyptica, Steve Lukather to Crowded House.

Bospop - Wikipedia
It is an incridibly friendly festival, but completely devoid of any hippy connotations.

...but we are getting a bit off-topic...

I hope people realise that when U2 started they could'n be put in a box either, their concerts were reviewed as "melodic heavy metal" while they were opening for pure Punk bands (whose audience couldn't stand them)

I don't think anybody (especially not U2) could've anticipated them performing and recording with the likes of Dylan, BBKing, Johnny Cash, Robbie Robertson or Keith Richards, certainly not with Luciano Pavarotti or Frank Sinatra.

So if one talks about U2 playing it safe, what exactly does that mean? Is that going back to Eno in stead of Rubin? Is playing it safe releasing a single with Green Day or MJBlige?

I like to see them take risks, whether that is AB, Pop or Passengers; UABRS, R&H or U2-3D. But I do think they have to live up to certain standards. This is why I don't get Elvis Presly and America. Especially not, when you consider three sunrises, love comes tumbling or even boomerang being available.

The same goes for some songs on ATYCLB, if Stateless was indeed lying around!
 
How do you know what member wanted what? Did they ever mentioned that in an interview?

Kind of an odd thread... Every song they've written has its role in them arriving at who they are today. I just don't see how you can look at any specific song and think "geez, the world would be better if this were never made."

And what's with all the GOYB bashing? It's funky and energetic. It's nice to see Adam get into it the way he does performing this tune. I think it was a mistake making this the first single from the album however.

I think Grace is a beautiful song. I really don't understand what people dislike about it. :hmm::hmm:
Well now it is an odd thread indeed:|:hyper: We all have diffirent tastes, i mean you can't like all U2 songs, they sound so diffirent on each album, unlike any other bands, and maybe some sound works for you, and some sound doesn't.

Well, i like the music in GOYB, but the lyrics are so plain stupid imo, and the chorus is also pretty weak. But it growed on me. I now think that Miami is U2's worst song. There is no music in it, the lyrics are stupid, and the chorus... MIAMIIII MIAMIIII is also not very strong, paaaapaapapapaaa. The song has no meaning either imo, besides that Bono bought 2 new shoes in Miami, which isn't really an exciting subject to make a song about :sexywink:
 
In my opinion the thesis that Larry is the main driver of U2's more, uhm, conventional and musically conservative direction in this decade is somewhat overplayed on here. He certainly never said anything uncomplimentary about Achtung or Zooropa. His issue was largely with Passengers, and to some extent, Pop. In the case of the latter, he hasn't even said that he disliked Pop, he just said that the treatment of some of the songs would have been better if they hadn't felt rushed into a release date. He has said that he considers Original Soundtracks to be an album of pretentious, and at times downright bad, music. He specifically did not say that of any of the proper U2 albums of the 1990's, including Pop.

While it's true that he is on record as saying that he suggested at a band meeting prior to the recording of ATYCLB that they try to put out an album of actual chart friendly pop tunes - as opposed to an album ironically entitled 'Pop' - I think that some have read too much into his comments re Passengers and interpreted it as a repudiation of the 1990's U2 era. You won't find any comments from Larry repudiating the entire 1990's U2 era in the U2-by-U2 book, for example.

That's why I pin it on Bono. And Edge, also. Because they are the conceptual and musical drivers of the band, let's face it. Adam and Larry may suggest a direction or idea for a song or whatever but they are not really the ones that are driving the band, and I don't mean to be unfair to either of them.

His comments about Passengers is not what I was basing this on... Read the comments below your last one and you'll see what I was talking about.

But live in your denial and keep pinning it on Bono he makes a much better target.
 
How do you know what member wanted what? Did they ever mentioned that in an interview?

Yes, Bono has expressed his disappointment over certain songs being relegated to the MDH soundtrack. The rest of the band just weren't excited about them.

But I believe Adam even said (recently?) that it was a mistake to leave The Ground Beneath Her Feet off ATYCLB.
 
Ah now Miami is a song that grew on me from skipping it to putting it as a strong base of Pop. Personally, I think the lyrics are clever and revert to much of the consumer mindset that the album mocks. As for the melody, the second half of the verses are what hooks me in as they are so crisp in their quality ("Big girl with a sweet tooth, watches skinny girl in the photo shoot).
 
Red Light is awesome, one of my fave tracks on War...love the guitar line especially.

Worst U2 songs:
Stuck in a Moment
Miami
If God Will Send His Angels

Most underrated:
Slug
When I Look at the World
If You Wear that Velvet Dress
 
Trip Through Your Wires,it does absolutely nothing for me,I have it but I hardly ever listen to it,I`d have to be bored with every other song I have to listen to it,in fact I have only listened to it twice if that tells you anything. It is probably the worst as well as the weakest,the lyrics are practically horrible,and Bono`s vocals on this particular song aren't great like in all the other songs on the album, I could live my life well without ever hearing this song again.
 
Well I would say the studio version of Miami is the worst ever. Can't stand it. But I really do like the live version. Amazing how different they are.

Probably second to Miami would be something off of HTDAAB. I pretty much hate that entire album so pick a song.
 
I used Elvis as an eample because from 59 - 68 he was forced to make bland sappy stuff. Hendrix' first appearance the USA is 1967, Dylan going Electric is 1965.

Elvis wasn't as influential by 68 as he was in the early 60s. Dylan going electric is indeed 65 - as I said, early/mid 60s - and I didn't say Hendrix wasn't the late 60s.

As for the other things you've mentioned I think you have a very idyllic idea of the 60s. Not only did that only last 1,5-2 yrs tops in the USA (Montery - Woodstock) But it ended violently at Altamont in 1969. How's that for Hippies getting along just fine?

I knew you would bring up Altamont, but that was rather an exception than a rule. There were other festivals after Altamont that went on smoothly until 1973/74 like the biggest gathering at the Isle of Wight in 1970, Summer Jam at Watkins Glen (1973) and California Jam (1974). With the decline of the hippie movement and the definition of new genres there started to be segmentation in the music scene and people indeed started to associate themselves with a type of music and became less tolerant of other styles.

The almost gang-like culture associated with music didn't stop with mods and rockers, it continued with genres as diverse as Ska, Punk, Heavy metal. Real rockers hated Disco (we sometimes say Eddie van Halen saved us from the clutches of Disco) yet the band that discovered Van Halen (Kiss) managed to make a hard rock/Disco crossover song. As with psychedelic rock, some of those genres (punk, metal) briefly got popular with the general public (which dilutes the genre setting off the purists) People are as possessive now as they were then, once they associate themselves with a genre.

I'm aware that the gang-like culture associated with music didn't end with mods and rockers, but it did end for about 8-10 years. It wasn't on at the end of the 60s - that's what I meant to say. The punk movement and the heavy metal movement (the latter wasn't as controversial as it's popularly believed) happened in the mid/late seventies. By that time people were fully taking sides musically speaking.

I didn't say disco was rock - I said disco had large white audiences and that it was influenced by black music.

Also very few of those late 60s festivals actually featured black artists, usually not more than one: Jimi (and in his wake Buddy Miles and Buddy Rich), Little Richard, who was already well established and Otis Redding. All of them played music that fitted in easily Folk (-rock), Country (-rock), Blues (-rock) and Psychedelic rock, with some hints of Soul. Those are not examples of particular musical diversity at those festivals, in fact some bands such as the Jimi Hendrix Experience, The Band or the Doors, produced music across all of those genres and more (Jazz/Fusion, Ethnic Music) and some found their niche linking genres (Santana)

I didn't say the late 60s festivals featured many black artists - I said there was a sort of musical diversity that nowadays wouldn't be very much tolerated in the same festival on the same date. Several years ago I was at a festival where Joe Cocker and Keith Richards played on the same date. They are both rock bands and by your definition they aren't that diverse. Maybe one's more on the blues side the other more on the rock 'n roll/rhythm & blues mold. The audience was more rock 'n roll oriented and they were very intolerant of Joe Cocker's band. Such a thing wouldn't have happened in one of those late 60s festivals. Today country rock, blues and jazz rock would indeed be considered diverse styles and I very much doubt audiences, unless not very much into music, would put up with such diversity in a concert.

Sly is the odd one out (although not by much), but indeed Sly only came at the very end, with several hits just before Woodstock (1969). His first three albums (67-68) sold poorly. I would also argue that, while black arists from Berry to Jimi, BB and Albert King, Little Richard had a large effect on "white" rock, Sly did not have an immediate impact.

I didn't say Sly had an impact on white "rock" or in white music in general - I said funk and soul and later disco garnered large white audiences.

There was a very brief period in which some more openess was apparent, but it didn't last. We only percieve this as such, because the period was very influential in social-political terms, Revolts and riots in Europe, USA riots, Vietnam, Prague Spring, RFK, not to mention LBJ's "Great Society" legislation (65-69) The main reason behind that musical diversity however is not the social background, but simple commercial considerations. Had it been profitable Dylan would've played Woodstock as would Led Zep and Cream would've played Monterey.

I agree that the period of openness was short lived - in fact it only lasted the late 60s, perhaps a bit into the early 70s, which brings me back to my original point that in the late 60s people were more tolerant of diversity in music.

There are plenty of current festivals that program as diverse as that, for example Bospop in the Netherlands. Last year their bill included are range of artists from Santana to Opeth, Neil Young to The Bangles (yes they do still perform), ZZ Top to Apocalyptica, Steve Lukather to Crowded House.

Bospop - Wikipedia
It is an incridibly friendly festival, but completely devoid of any hippy connotations.

I know there are festivals in which very diverse artists play but they don't play on the same date! Opeth plays the same date as Anathema, Apocalyptica and Thin Lizzy and NOT on the same date as Santana or The Bangles. Recently there was in Buenos Aires, a festival called Quilmes Rock. If you look it up you'll find that Radiohead, Iron Maiden and Kiss played that festival, which would imply a very diverse programme. However the three bands headlined three different dates: Iron Maiden played on the same date as Sepultura and a few local heavy metal acts, Radiohead played on the same date as Kraftwerk and some local alternative acts, Kiss was supported by some local hard rock acts. I wouldn't exactly call that diversity or tolerance for such.
 
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