Setlists for a hypothetical late 2019 tour of Australia, NZ, Asia

[The_acrobat]

Obviously, the ideal situation for Australians and Asians would be for them to come into town, play multiple nights at the local arena, and throw the setlists in a blender each night. Something similar to the arena leg of the Vertigo tour, or even the SOI tour. But that's not going to happen.

For U2 to go to Australia, they want to make maximum dollars. That means doing big shows, charging high prices, and do it in a relatively short space of time. That's why the Joshua Tree Tour would make the most sense, from a ticket selling perspective. Or some kind of Greatest Hits / Career Comprehensive type of show. If they attempt to take Innocence & Experience down under and expect to sell out stadiums, they're going to be disappointed with the sales. At some of the first shows in 2018, they were playing 12 new songs, between SOE and SOI... and ZERO songs from the Joshua Tree. I'd be willing to bet that if some of the casual fans knew that prior to, they wouldn't have bought tickets. I actually preferred the IE/EI tours over JT myself, but I'm a hardcore fan, and I happen to like the new albums.

I hope they don't just do a rehash of the JT tour. U2songs said this tour would have it's own unique name, so it seems unlikely that it'd be just the Joshua Tree Tour. I'm excited to see what they come up with, even though I won't be going to any of the shows myself.

 

[AndrewCowley]

I still think doing a special 30th anniversary Love Town Tour booked in arenas is the better way to go. It allows you to start small and build from there based on demand. The only problem is that it would take a lot more time.

Who cares if it takes more time! It's not like this tour would be banging into any other commitments.

 

[The_acrobat]

Who cares if it takes more time! It's not like this tour would be banging into any other commitments.

TIME IS MONEY!!!

Arenas = less money + more time/effort to satisfy demand. That's unfortunately what it comes down to.

 

[AndrewCowley]

For U2 to go to Australia, they want to make maximum dollars. That means doing big shows, charging high prices, and do it in a relatively short space of time.

The SOE arena shows had high ticket prices by U2's past standards. Maybe that would give them more freedom to make the numbers around an arena based tour work.

 

[Axver]

Incredible take given you've never been to Australia.

I'm not convinced that, if it was a weirdly-marketed hodge-podge of the last three tours, or E+I, they'd be able to sell out 2+ nights in stadiums. They haven't been here in a decade essentially and when they last toured they still had a smidge of relevance.

Now, the only thing with a shred of relevance they've done since is touring JT30. That's the only thing that's made a blip on people's radars. Otherwise they're just the band that forced an album no one listened to onto people's iPhones. No one has a clue about SoE. But they know The Joshua Tree, there was a 10-minute story on that tour on one of our top-rating current affairs shows in 2017, people here love Rattle & Hum more than the rest of the world and Lovetown started in Australia and featured 25 shows hitting the five biggest cities.

The fact they're so big, plus the nine-year absence, means they might still sell out 2+ stadium shows, but no one gives a fuck about them so it's not a sure thing. If they want to get best bang for their buck, with large amounts of sellouts, then it has to be centred around Joshua Tree & Lovetown. They missed the boat for i+e and e+i.

All of this. I am amazed how many people I speak to who say that they loved U2, went to Lovetown, and have never even thought of seeing them again. Especially not given recent debacles. A tour that recalls the late eighties glory days might actually get some of them back on board. The old dickhead uncle who says "yeah I remember when U2 were good" might be insufferable, but U2 Inc. would still prefer to sell him a concert ticket than for him to sit at home playing the Best of 1980-1990 and telling anyone who will listen about that Lovetown show he saw.

Some hodge-podge might sell 2 shows in Sydney and Melbourne (not necessarily sell-outs), but you can forget the other cities. A JT/Lovetown themed tour? 3 in both Sydney and Melbourne would not be out of the question.

I really don't think people outside Australia/New Zealand get how big R&H/Lovetown was down here. My mum is confused that U2 don't play Silver and Gold every show.

But a long absence can also swing sales the other way, especially when you've had no hits or any sort of presence with the public (iPhone debacle aside) since your last visit.

This is the thing. Literally the only thing that U2 are known for in Australia since their last visit is the iPhone debacle. Nine entire years and they have nothing in that period that will drum up sales. They really need to go the JT/Lovetown/career route. They will sell tickets because people fucking LOVE Streets, Pride, Mysterious Ways, Desire, whatever. They will reduce their ticket sales if they talk about The Miracle of Getting Out of Every Breaking American Soul.

Selling out stadiums in Australia is never a sure thing. Lets not forget what happened in early 1998 when they brought the POPMART tour down under

Sydney - 38,000 attendance

Melbourne - 23,000 attendance

Brisbane - 17,000 attendance

Perth - 14,000 attendance


I still think doing a special 30th anniversary Love Town Tour booked in arenas is the better way to go. It allows you to start small and build from there based on demand. The only problem is that it would take a lot more time.

Hi Sting.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

If everyone in Australia hates them so much, why should they tour there?

That's only a half being an asshole comment... you guys are making it seem as if they should be playing the club circuit.

 

[Axver]

Because everybody is hanging out for me to kick your arse.

In seriousness, this country loves U2 up to and including Vertigo, and has a particularly strong fondness for JT/R&H, one possibly unmatched anywhere else (especially re: R&H).

But if most parts of North America and Europe don't give a shit about SOI/E, this part of the world gives negative shits. A tour spanning the band's full glories will sell well; tickets for a tour with marketing emphasising the two most recent albums will move rather more slowly.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

If I can put on my STING hat for a second...

i/e grossed about $150 million
e/i grossed about $130 million
JT30 grossed about $315 million

So about $600 million from 2015 through 2018, over about 180 shows - 130 arena 50 stadium.

That's more than Vertigo & Elevation combined (probably about even if you ADJUST FOR INFLATION)

So the rumors of their untimely live demise are greatly exaggerated.

People may not give a turkey about the albums anymore, but they're still a cash cow on the list e circuit.

 

[kabigon]

Do people in NA/EU really give a shit (more than Australia at least) about SOI/E at all beyond U2 using these albums as an excuse to tour and play other material? I would wager that there'd be a similar lack of awareness/interest in any show (unless it's a special one-off U2.com subscriber only show or something), and that the recent tours have succeeded despite rather than because of any emphasis on new material.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Do people in NA/EU really give a shit (more than Australia at least) about SOI/E at all beyond U2 using these albums as an excuse to tour and play other material? I would wager that there'd be a similar lack of awareness/interest in any show (unless it's a special one-off U2.com subscriber only show or something), and that the recent tours have succeeded despite rather than because of any emphasis on new material.

Yea nobody really gives a shit about new u2 anywhere outside of these forums. And even that's questionable.

 

[kabigon]

So I guess what I'm saying is that while it would be super smart (and therefore, unlikely) of U2 to emphasise JT/R&H/Lovetown in any tour talk here, it's not essential if they don't, depending on where you stand on the nine year gap increasing demand or further diminishing their relevance.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

All I'm saying is that nobody goes to U2 concerts for the new albums. Anywhere.

I'm sure someone will come in and be all "ehrmagad I so dooooo".

Which is why you skipped JT30, right? Oh, you didn't? Didn't think so.

For the one guy who actually did skip JT30, good for you. Here's a cookie.

 

[dan_smee]

I doubt it will be promoted as pure nostalgia - whether it should be or not.

I can see promo focussing on three blockbuster tours “including the enormously successful JT30 tour, now out on DVD, Blu Ray and streaming”.

If anyone thinks they aren’t going to play at least 5-6 songs off SOI/SOE they are dreaming.

 

[cobl04]

If I can put on my STING hat for a second...

i/e grossed about $150 million
e/i grossed about $130 million
JT30 grossed about $315 million

So about $600 million from 2015 through 2018, over about 180 shows - 130 arena 50 stadium.

That's more than Vertigo & Elevation combined (probably about even if you ADJUST FOR INFLATION)

So the rumors of their untimely live demise are greatly exaggerated.

People may not give a turkey about the albums anymore, but they're still a cash cow on the list e circuit.

I don't think anyone here was saying they aren't an attractive live option. They are obviously still MASSIVE live, and if they come here doing e+i then they're still gonna make money.

All we're saying is that if they want this proposed tour to do really well, then marketing it as e+i (which all the rumours suggest won't happen, and if it does come true, which is still a huge pipedream, it will very likely be along the lines of what Smee just wrote above) would be a very, very stupid idea.

It's the difference between a middling tour where only Syd and Melb get a second show (and it might not sell out) and a tour that hits five cities with potentially sell outs for two shows in each and a third in Melb and Syd. It's all in how it's marketed.

 

[lazarus]

I love how someone is posting Popmart sales figures. How about the ones for 360? No one gave a shit about that album and the tour did gangbusters. Was Australia an exception?

We also have Axver talking about all the senior citizens he knows who are all about Lovetown and have had no interest since. Funny how ZooTV and Vertigo didn’t seem to suffer from their absence.

Dan is right above; if you think they’re going to skip two new albums worth of material and only play like 2 new songs you’re delusional. And if you admit that SOI/SOE are going to count for 6-7 songs (or roughly a third of the set), it’s not really feasible that they also do Joshua Tree in its entirety, because they’re not going to leave out the rest of the hits.

Now, what is possible is that you get a segment of “Songs of” selections, a segment of JT/R&H rarities (Exit, One Tree Hill, Red Hill, Hawkmoon, e.g.) and then the remaining 10 songs are career-spanning hits. It would be a “mixed up kid of a concert”, to paraphrase Bono, but should satisfy most of the demographics, and the band doesn’t have to feel like a jukebox or revival act.

 

[cobl04]

Popmart figures were dumb, yes. 360 they were still riding off the last tour (they toured Aus in 2006, two years after HTDAAB was released, and then 360 came four years later) and it was well-marketed: come and see this big ass claw, it's the biggest thing ever, we won't be able to shut the roofs of the stadiums, and it wasn't marketed specifically tied to an album, so no one was under the impression that it'd be full of songs from their most recent album.

ZooTV didn't suffer because they were still a well-loved band at that point. Vertigo didn't suffer because they hadn't toured for ATYCLB and Vertigo was a huge smash.

I get the feeling you're just being antagonistic for the sake of it, because you're completely ignoring the point that we're telling you is a universal truth: Rattle & Hum is genuinely considered in the same echelon as JT and AB and War here. So therefore, it would make sense to lean on the support for that album/time, because it's so close to JT.

Of course the tour is very very likely going to be a mix of SoI/E, JT, R&H and other hits. That is obviously to anyone, even those more blind than Axver.

What we're saying is they have a very obvious ticket to huge success with this hypothetical tour right in front of them if they want to take it.

 

[AndrewCowley]

Now, what is possible is that you get a segment of “Songs of” selections, a segment of JT/R&H rarities (Exit, One Tree Hill, Red Hill, Hawkmoon, e.g.) and then the remaining 10 songs are career-spanning hits. It would be a “mixed up kid of a concert”, to paraphrase Bono, but should satisfy most of the demographics, and the band doesn’t have to feel like a jukebox or revival act.

Honestly ... that sounds silly. A tour with no theme and no knockout punch from a marketing and bums on seats perspective.

The point a few of us are trying to make is that if they want to fill stadiums in Australia, especially multiple for nights in the bigger cities, they are going to need a lot more than this. They need to push the retro vibe really hard, like they did for JT30. The retro aspect has to be front and centre or else sales will be weak. And with that in mind ... there is the obvious opportunity to bring Lovetown into the mix.

 

[kabigon]

Vertigo down here was basically a U218 Singles Tour
360 had scant mention of NLOTH

Both were fairly successful

They don't *need* to emphasise an earlier successful era/album, but it wouldn't hurt.

 

[AndrewCowley]

Vertigo down here was basically a U218 Singles Tour
360 had scant mention of NLOTH

These had tailwinds that simply aren't there in 2019.

 

[kabigon]

360 came about six years after their last popular song and not even a moderately successful song on NLOTH. Headwinds, not tailwinds.

 

[Axver]

Do people in NA/EU really give a shit (more than Australia at least) about SOI/E at all beyond U2 using these albums as an excuse to tour and play other material? I would wager that there'd be a similar lack of awareness/interest in any show (unless it's a special one-off U2.com subscriber only show or something), and that the recent tours have succeeded despite rather than because of any emphasis on new material.

At least SOI/E benefited from a presence on TV in the Northern Hemisphere around the time tickets went on sale - and the whole thing of bundling the album in with tickets.

It's the difference between a middling tour where only Syd and Melb get a second show (and it might not sell out) and a tour that hits five cities with potentially sell outs for two shows in each and a third in Melb and Syd. It's all in how it's marketed.

This is the key point. What scale of tour do they want? If they want to get close to 360 figures today, locating JT/R&H centrally in the promotion is the only serious avenue. They will still do perfectly well if they don't, and maybe they don't care if they can't do a second night in Perth or Brisbane or wherever, or if night two in Sydney and Melbourne has an empty top deck. That would still represent a massive amount of dosh for them, and a greater attendance than almost any other artist can manage. But gee the figures for a JT/R&H-associated tour ought to be impressive.

We also have Axver talking about all the senior citizens he knows who are all about Lovetown and have had no interest since. Funny how ZooTV and Vertigo didn’t seem to suffer from their absence.

Funny how you misrepresent U2's key demographic as "senior citizens" and miss what everyone's saying just to try to lay some burns that are about as warm as Dublin in January.

ZooTV actually did suffer. We can only properly compare Lovetown and ZooTV in New Zealand, because all the Australian Lovetown shows were in arenas or tennis venues, not at stadiums. In New Zealand, however, it was stadiums both times, since there were no arenas in 1989 big enough for U2 and they had to make a stadium show work. In 1989 they did two shows in Auckland, one in Wellington, one in Christchurch. Over one in ten Cantabrians attended that Christchurch Lovetown show, the largest concert ever held in the South Island at the time. The first Auckland show has U2's highest attendance for a single concert in New Zealand, and forced the addition of the second night, which had not been planned.

In 1993 they did one show each in Auckland and Christchurch, at the same venues, and didn't sell nearly as many tickets in either city. Almost half the tickets available for sale went unsold. They didn't even attempt Wellington, and they have never played outside of Auckland again.

All subsequent shows in Auckland have been at a smaller stadium, though overall attendance in 2006 and 2010 was a bit higher than 1989 - in no small part because people from other cities had to travel to Auckland and helped sell out two nights! The total attendance at Lovetown across all four nights in New Zealand was about 155,000, far ahead of anything since: 67,000 in 1993, 84,000 in 2006, and 93,000 in 2010. That's right, ZooTV is U2's second worst attended tour in New Zealand, only beating out the theatre-based UF Tour!

While Europe and North America remember ZooTV as the live glory days of U2, it's JT/R&H/Lovetown down here. I don't know why you cannot comprehend this.

 

[AndrewCowley]

Here's an idea.

Arena tour. Multiple nights in each city. Two different set lists. One with the hitz and the other with more obscure selections.

De-ja-vu.

 

[cobl04]

At least SOI/E benefited from a presence on TV in the Northern Hemisphere around the time tickets went on sale - and the whole thing of bundling the album in with tickets.



This is the key point. What scale of tour do they want? If they want to get close to 360 figures today, locating JT/R&H centrally in the promotion is the only serious avenue. They will still do perfectly well if they don't, and maybe they don't care if they can't do a second night in Perth or Brisbane or wherever, or if night two in Sydney and Melbourne has an empty top deck. That would still represent a massive amount of dosh for them, and a greater attendance than almost any other artist can manage. But gee the figures for a JT/R&H-associated tour ought to be impressive.



Funny how you misrepresent U2's key demographic as "senior citizens" and miss what everyone's saying just to try to lay some burns that are about as warm as Dublin in January.

ZooTV actually did suffer. We can only properly compare Lovetown and ZooTV in New Zealand, because all the Australian Lovetown shows were in arenas or tennis venues, not at stadiums. In New Zealand, however, it was stadiums both times, since there were no arenas in 1989 big enough for U2 and they had to make a stadium show work. In 1989 they did two shows in Auckland, one in Wellington, one in Christchurch. Over one in ten Cantabrians attended that Christchurch Lovetown show, the largest concert ever held in the South Island at the time. The first Auckland show has U2's highest attendance for a single concert in New Zealand, and forced the addition of the second night, which had not been planned.

In 1993 they did one show each in Auckland and Christchurch, at the same venues, and didn't sell nearly as many tickets in either city. Almost half the tickets available for sale went unsold. They didn't even attempt Wellington, and they have never played outside of Auckland again.

All subsequent shows in Auckland have been at a smaller stadium, though overall attendance in 2006 and 2010 was a bit higher than 1989 - in no small part because people from other cities had to travel to Auckland and helped sell out two nights! The total attendance at Lovetown across all four nights in New Zealand was about 155,000, far ahead of anything since: 67,000 in 1993, 84,000 in 2006, and 93,000 in 2010. That's right, ZooTV is U2's second worst attended tour in New Zealand, only beating out the theatre-based UF Tour!

While Europe and North America remember ZooTV as the live glory days of U2, it's JT/R&H/Lovetown down here. I don't know why you cannot comprehend this.

This is how I know you’re back and on the mend, classic Ax post

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I don't think anyone debates that nostalgia U2 is a bigger draw than new U2. I'm only debating two things...

a) that this is somehow a phenomena that only exists in Australia and New Zealand, and people were just flocking to shows to hear 12 different versions of Volcano and Song For Someone everywhere else in the world;

b) that if they don't focus on JT/LT they're going to play to a bunch of empty stadiums filled only with wallabies and the poor sap Ax sends to take the setlist down, since he's not going to the first U2 show on the same continent as him in protest of their inability to play Rattle and Hum front to back (and partly because he wants to avoid getting curb stomped)


Clearly if they're going to play stadiums the sets will likely be geared more towards hits, and won't be an e/i gig. I'd guess it's more a general career spanning set that, yes, includes some of the last 2 albums.

 

[Axver]

This is how I know you’re back and on the mend, classic Ax post

I'm back in business, mofos.

I'm only debating two things...

Nobody's saying these things though. It's just successful tour vs very successful tour.

 

[lazarus]

Funny how you misrepresent U2's key demographic as "senior citizens" and miss what everyone's saying just to try to lay some burns that are about as warm as Dublin in January.

ZooTV actually did suffer. We can only properly compare Lovetown and ZooTV in New Zealand, because all the Australian Lovetown shows were in arenas or tennis venues, not at stadiums. In New Zealand, however, it was stadiums both times, since there were no arenas in 1989 big enough for U2 and they had to make a stadium show work. In 1989 they did two shows in Auckland, one in Wellington, one in Christchurch. Over one in ten Cantabrians attended that Christchurch Lovetown show, the largest concert ever held in the South Island at the time. The first Auckland show has U2's highest attendance for a single concert in New Zealand, and forced the addition of the second night, which had not been planned.

In 1993 they did one show each in Auckland and Christchurch, at the same venues, and didn't sell nearly as many tickets in either city. Almost half the tickets available for sale went unsold. They didn't even attempt Wellington, and they have never played outside of Auckland again.

All subsequent shows in Auckland have been at a smaller stadium, though overall attendance in 2006 and 2010 was a bit higher than 1989 - in no small part because people from other cities had to travel to Auckland and helped sell out two nights! The total attendance at Lovetown across all four nights in New Zealand was about 155,000, far ahead of anything since: 67,000 in 1993, 84,000 in 2006, and 93,000 in 2010. That's right, ZooTV is U2's second worst attended tour in New Zealand, only beating out the theatre-based UF Tour!

While Europe and North America remember ZooTV as the live glory days of U2, it's JT/R&H/Lovetown down here. I don't know why you cannot comprehend this.

Congrats, you managed to prove that your deficient continent deserves being passed over on a perennial basis by the band.

This isn't a binary question as most of us seem to agree on, but of degrees: 1. Are they still an stadium draw? 2. Are they still a big stadium draw? 3. Can they draw crowds as big as any other touring artist?

You can post all the stats you want, but I'm not convinced that the greatest financial gain is the priority in driving the band's decisions, even if taking this show to that part of the world (including stops in Asia) is more expensive than just going across America or Europe. You claim that a JT/Lovetown revival tour will sell more tickets than any other possible show they could put on; perhaps that's right. But as you yourself admit, they're not going to lose money either way (well, maybe if they say they're only playing material from 2014 onward).

So let's go back to the question this hinges on: do you or do you not think the band will play a healthy selection of songs (6-8) from their last two albums, which haven't been toured in these areas yet? If the answer is yes, you must admit that JT is unlikely to be played in full. And if your answer is no, I think you're forgetting how much the band puts value in their recent work, as they have for their entire career.

More specifically, in the band members' minds, do you think they feel these parts of the world not toured since 360 have missed out more on the JT tour, or on the SOI/SOE cycle? Which of these is more important to them, do you think? JT was a placeholder tour because they decided to delay an album. That they found new political relevance in it was an added bonus, but that aspect is going to be a little stale 2 years later, as well as being further away geographically from Trump's America, Brexit and a dysfunctional Europe, etc. And one also has to consider the notion that the band may be uninterested in the slog of playing a full album 15-20 more times.

So if that doesn't happen, where does that leave them? You think they're likely to play 4 deep JT cuts, and 4 more from Rattle & Hum, because it went over really big there 20 years ago--an album and movie that they haven't made any effort to commemorate with a reissue?

Good luck. Anything can happen, of course, because the band baffles on a regular basis now. But it sure isn't in keeping with their modern track record.

One last thing to keep in mind: if they're going to tour Asia as well as Oceania, they can't really do two vastly different stage shows. So either they're going to bring the Innocence/Experience dividing wall screen on the whole tour, or they're going to do something else. I can't imagine they will defer to Australia and New Zealand because of the Lovetown obsession, when it might not have the same standing in the other countries.

 

[Axver]

I've never said they'll play JT in full. Nor do I think they will. Also, it's what they choose to emphasise in PROMOTION that we're talking about right now, not what they end up playing (despite the thread title).

And hey, when they came here on Vertigo, explicitly promoting HTDAAB, they played just 4 songs from that album at most shows. The second Auckland show in 2006 set the record for least songs from a new U2 album up to that point, with 3. It remains the equal recordholder.

I'm gonna let you think you won this debate, laz, because I just don't give enough of a shit to argue about things that everybody else can either tell has been resolved already, or talked out.

All I'm saying is that "U2 touring Songs of Innocence + Experience!" is not as big a draw as some formulation of "U2 touring their Joshua Tree/Rattle & Hum hits plus old and new favourites". With the cost of touring down here, why leave money on the table?

 

[Axver]

Also, fucking lol that you STILL can't get it through your head that R&H is beyond massive here.

I mean, hell, yes they realise how important it was here, they added R&H songs to their set in both 2006 and 2010 for Australasia. I'm sure they can do THAT again.

 

[cobl04]

This is so fucking dumb we're literally all talking past each other. I agree with everything you wrote Laz and haven't, and won't, argue any different, and neither is Ax or anyone else here.

You claim that a JT/Lovetown revival tour will sell more tickets than any other possible show they could put on; perhaps that's right.

This is the only point we're making. Literally. And we were really just shooting the shit and dreaming and hoping for that (I would 10000000x rather JT/Lovetown revival than SoI/E, and that's even having seen JT30).

It won't happen, because as we know, this modern version of U2 don't like focusing on former glories but would rather promote new stuff. ALL we are saying is they would sell more tickets if, in their marketing, they reminded Australians of JT and Lovetown. That's it.

I would be completely okay -- and think it's likely -- with a show that has 6-8 new songs, 6 off JT, the 4 R&H singles, and then a generic hits smattering.

We're really just shooting the shit, chewing the fat... but as has happened on this forum for all of my 14 years, Americans can't understand Australian communication and take things too seriously

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Nobody's saying these things though.

(and partly because he wants to avoid getting curb stomped)

Glad you can finally admit it