Pious plonker or just misunderstood: why we should all lay off Bono

[Iggy Fizz]

That's what I thought. Good job

 

[DaveC]

lmao imagine having your head so far up your own ass that you think working people don't have anything better to do on a wednesday morning than to root through pages of your post history just to prove a point that everyone already knows.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

If you are going to continue to post that I am not just a Trump supporter and white nationalist, but also some reincarnated version of a former poster here, then I am going to insist that you back it up.

I never gave you a timeline, so whether you back that up today, tomorrow or next week, quite frankly I do not give a rat's ass.

But of course you cannot back it up, so you continue to post bullshit memes. LMAO, indeed.

 

[DaveC]

 

[Iggy Fizz]

you think working people don't have anything better to do on a wednesday morning

Looks like your Wednesday is going just swimmingly. Rock on my friend. Rock on.

 

[Anu]

Bono has been getting on my nerves for the past year or so, more than ever. He reminds me of my aunt, who is a far-left Mennonite and religiously watches CNN. Bono would make a great liberal Mennonite. They’re super irritating.

I hope there is folk-punk band out there somewhere called The Far Left Mennonites.

 

[Rachel D.]

Maybe I haven’t been paying attention as much but I thought Bono was very annoying in 2005 where it seemed like every other song had an Africa speech before it. He seems to have stepped away quite a bit. At least that’s how it feels to more of a casual observer like myself.

I think back then, Bono was trying to be bi-partisan for the sake of his Africa work and was getting along with both sides. That is no longer true. I used to think that he was different from all the other celebrities with political opinions and was taking the high road by trying to bring people together, but I don't think that's true anymore. Some of the things he said as MacPhisto on the EI Tour suggested that he has washed his hands of the other side.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more card
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part…

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

I think back then, Bono was trying to be bi-partisan for the sake of his Africa work and was getting along with both sides. That is no longer true. I used to think that he was different from all the other celebrities with political opinions and was taking the high road by trying to bring people together, but I don't think that's true anymore. Some of the things he said as MacPhisto on the EI Tour suggested that he has washed his hands of the other side.

Probably because it's hard to work with people who are operating in a whole other alternate reality and supporting things and beliefs that have no basis in facts and logic.

Mind, I could see Bono perhaps still being willing to work with individual Republican members of Congress on certain issues if need be, and I'd be willing to believe there's a few of them who would be open to working with him in turn.

But Trump? The guy who called the home countries immigrants were coming from "shitholes"? The guy who this week has threatened to pull FEMA funding for people who've been affected by the recent wildfires? The guy who's done absolutely nothing of any significance to help the people in Puerto Rico? The guy who defended white supremacists and neo-Nazis after Charlottesville by claiming there were "good people on both sides"? The guy who's letting this shutdown drag on because he can't get over his dumb obsession with an unnecessary wall? Yeah, I think it's pretty safe to say that the chances of him getting on board with anything relating to providing help and support to other people is about zero.

And if his base saw him working with somebody like Bono, they'd get all bent out of shape about it, because he's working with those horrible liberals. Trump only ever cares about himself, and trying to get facts across to him is like talking to a brick wall, so I think it makes perfect sense that Bono's decided he's not even going to bother trying with him.

 

[Catman]

I think back then, Bono was trying to be bi-partisan for the sake of his Africa work and was getting along with both sides. That is no longer true. I used to think that he was different from all the other celebrities with political opinions and was taking the high road by trying to bring people together, but I don't think that's true anymore. Some of the things he said as MacPhisto on the EI Tour suggested that he has washed his hands of the other side.

I... can't really agree with this. First of all, Trump is kind've a different beast in relation to past Presidents, with such a cavalier attitude towards policy and a total disregard of the truth. I mean, sure, you can say, "All politicians lie," or whatever, but that'd be a bit of a false equivalency compared to the precedent set by the current administration. Besides, Trump is very much a populist, and his ardent "America First!" sloganeering would most likely appear incongruous with the sort of issues Bono advocates.

I just don't see it as him "washing his hands of the other side," but rather viewing Trump, himself, as a dishonest, opportunistic waste of time. I mean, Bono seemed to have no reservations with attempting to establish a rapport with Pence, or Trey Gowdy, or some other far right pos... But like I said, Trump's a different beast altogether, and I guess, from Bono's pov, any sort of relationship with the man would be a futile effort for his cause and a nice photo op for Trump.


EDIT: also what Moonlit_Angel said [emoji14]

 

[BVS]

I think back then, Bono was trying to be bi-partisan for the sake of his Africa work and was getting along with both sides. That is no longer true. I used to think that he was different from all the other celebrities with political opinions and was taking the high road by trying to bring people together, but I don't think that's true anymore. Some of the things he said as MacPhisto on the EI Tour suggested that he has washed his hands of the other side.

No, I think the other side has washed their hands of human decency and reality and that's what MacPhisto is pointing out.

 

[Rachel D.]

And the scent of political discussion has drawn BVS from his den.

 

[Muad'zin]

It all boils down to avoiding taxes. Bono grated on people before, but that was just him being very preachy because he maybe cared too much. I can understand that at least. But the tax avoidance firmly placed him from being obnoxiously preachy into not just the hypocrite camp, but firmly in that of the socalled elite. You can say, well, everybody tries to avoid paying taxes, and that is true. But overall most of us can't avoid paying taxes because the tax system is biased against most of us. When you're rich or a big mega corporations not only do loopholes become available to you thanks to expensive tax consultants that we can't afford, governments actually start to become very accommodating to help you avoid paying taxes. But governments still have to be paid for by someone. And if the rich and powerful are not paying their fair share, somebody has to fork it up. And that's usually the not so rich and powerful. As in us.

Last year my income went up by a €100 a month due to a pay increase. As a result the government decided that I no longer qualified for rent subsidy, and that I should IMMEDIATELY pay back what I had been given that year. So no more rent subsidy, immediate payback, which meant my income actually went down and I had to hit my savings account to pay back the Dutch IRS. And then it becomes very galling to hear the same IRS give wavers to big corporations so as to allow them to avoid taxes over billions of earnings, or for Bono to use my country as a tax haven. That feels as an injustice, leeway and cooperation for the rich, complete and utter indifference and malice towards the rest of us. This is part why so many people feel that governments only serve the interests of the socalled elites and not for them. And by going all tax avoidance Bono has placed himself into the camp of the socalled elites. Which makes his charity work look like a hypocrite.

And yes, you can say that he and U2 funnel a lot of money back into Ireland all legally, but I reckon, and maybe others do too, that it could be even more if he also paid the same tax percentage over his income as the rest of us. As a saying goes, people who live in glass houses shouldn't be the ones who throw stones.

 

[Irvine511]

Can people really not distinguish between Bono the person and U2 the international corporation that does 97% of its business outside of Ireland?

Picking on Bono is the easiest thing in the world. He’s one of the few celebrities who actually does the work, does the homework, made real change happen by working with the W Bush administration on HIV in Africa, and likely know he’s done real credibility damage to U2 through his charitable activities but he uses his cultural status anyway because he knows that music is just a tool through which he effects change.

I don’t care if he’s annoying. The world needs more Bono, on balance.

 

[Mac_Fly]

Can people really not distinguish between Bono the person and U2 the international corporation that does 97% of its business outside of Ireland?

Apparently they cannot.

And will not.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

Apparently they cannot.

And will not.

and if you dont understand why not then it's hopeless, you're just a U2 and Bono apologist and that is ok, just admit it already.

Irvine is right in that B has done a tremendous amount of good in this world. He just needs to STFU about guilting and cajoling governments (and individuals like us) to give more of their incomes / tax-generated revenues to his pet causes while at the same time he does his best to reduce his own obligations (i.e. U2 Inc) to those same tax-based budgets in his home country.

So really, the basis for this criticism is not complicated.

 

[Mac_Fly]

and if you dont understand why not then it's hopeless, you're just a U2 and Bono apologist and that is ok, just admit it already.

Irvine is right in that B has done a tremendous amount of good in this world. He just needs to STFU about guilting and cajoling governments (and individuals like us) to give more of their incomes / tax-generated revenues to his pet causes while at the same time he does his best to reduce his own obligations (i.e. U2 Inc) to those same tax-based budgets in his home country.

So really, the basis for this criticism is not complicated.

What's hopeless is for people like you to understand the opposing viewpoint. And no, I'm not a hopeless fan boy blindly defending U2 and Co. at every turn. That's a lazy insult/argument on your part.

To me, hypocrisy would be a justifiable accusation if Bono insisted individuals and corporations strive to pay the most possible in taxes, then he himself did not. But otherwise, he's doing what we all do: pay taxes -- but take advantage of tax exemptions and loop holes if possible. Everyone wants to keep as much of their income as possible.

Advocating that governments allocate a portion of tax revenue toward this or that is a separate matter. And Bono has been persuasive because there are good reasons for doing what he proposes, reasons that are beneficial even beyond the strictly humanitarian viewpoint.

 

[Irvine511]

and if you dont understand why not then it's hopeless, you're just a U2 and Bono apologist and that is ok, just admit it already.

Irvine is right in that B has done a tremendous amount of good in this world. He just needs to STFU about guilting and cajoling governments (and individuals like us) to give more of their incomes / tax-generated revenues to his pet causes while at the same time he does his best to reduce his own obligations (i.e. U2 Inc) to those same tax-based budgets in his home country.

So really, the basis for this criticism is not complicated.

He’s not saying “tax people more” he’s saying “spend a larger percentage of your budget on helping developing nations as it is not only the right thing to do but also in your own self-interest.”

 

[Mac_Fly]

He’s not saying “tax people more” he’s saying “spend a larger percentage of your budget on helping developing nations as it is not only the right thing to do but also in your own self-interest.”

Right. And I don't see that as directly contradictory to individuals lessening their own tax obligation whenever possible.

Who strives to pay the government a maximum in tax revenue in the hopes that the money will be spent for a given cause? No one.

Maybe Bono has been a hypocrite somewhere along the line. Maybe he has advocated that individuals and/or corporations strive to pay taxes and not avoid loopholes. If so, then he's being hypocritical. But barring that, I honestly don't see a contradiction. It comes off as a false equivalency in my book.

 

[Iggy Fizz]

Mac - I do see your point but I think you are simply making a narrow, technical argument that what Bono is doing is not 'technically' wrong. But he knows and I think you do as well that he is violating the spirit of what he is advocating by reducing his commitments to his own country's budget while (as Irvine says) arguing other governments maximize their giving.

Look we could argue all day long but that is the essence of the problem and if B does not see this and address it then its a lost cause. But whatever at this point.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think back then, Bono was trying to be bi-partisan for the sake of his Africa work and was getting along with both sides. That is no longer true. I used to think that he was different from all the other celebrities with political opinions and was taking the high road by trying to bring people together, but I don't think that's true anymore. Some of the things he said as MacPhisto on the EI Tour suggested that he has washed his hands of the other side.

Well when the other side turns out to be a bunch of backwards racist assholes, it's kinda tough to be bipartisan.

 

[dazzledbylight]

When B got W and Helms to agree to stuff, RD, he knew they'd most likely totally or partially keep their words.
With dumkoff we know he could just upend the agreement the next day, or by evening if it was made in the morning!

He's seen enough of this to avoid it. Plus what hais just said.