Happy 20th Birthday POP!

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I love that they announced a tour by playing the b side to the single. I wish they'd play it again, it's a fantastic song.

It's funny that their most experimental era produced their most convincing garage rock song.

the K Mart outfits should have been their Pop Mart outfits

was that the only time Edge performed without a hat since Lovetown?
 
Was going to post a thread, but forgot. Here's what I would've posted...

U2 has always had a degree of insecurity and self-doubt about them mixed in with seemingly boundless ambition. It's manifested itself in different ways. In the studio, they've always seemed to torture themselves trying to get it right - the sessions for UF came down to the wire with 20 hour days at the end to get it done, in the JT sessions they were so stressed about Streets that Brian Eno nearly destroyed the master tape of it, the band's near break-up during the AB sessions is well-documented, and in later years they would scrap an apparently finished version of HTDAAB to make a new one and compromise their artistic vision for NLOTH. In terms of how they presented themselves publicly, their personas, etc, they often seemed awkward in the 80s, as if they didn't quite believe in the bravado they were selling, and in later years, they too often appear to be chasing a relevance they used to have.

But for a brief period of time, maybe from the Zooropa recording sessions up through the early stages of the Pop sessions, they appeared to have a confidence that they never had before or since. They recorded Zooropa in only a couple of months and soon after were performing those songs live, they dove into the experimental Passengers project with Eno, in which they boldly played with everything from trip-hop to opera. They were rarely more creatively ambitious or confident in their ability to follow that ambition to a result than they were in those years. And ambitious they were heading into the Pop sessions, desiring to meld together rock, dance, electronic, and trip-hop elements with high concepts - the nature of consumerism and materialism in the late 20th century, crises of faith, etc - to create a club record that was still distinctly a U2 record. It was perhaps the most ambitious they ever were going into the production of a record.

Ultimately, it appears that they were unable to satisfy that ambition, even if a lot of people love the finished product. The sessions were plagued from the beginning. The band started working with a drum machine while Larry was recovering from surgery, leading to an intensification of the use of technology that the band had been immersed in all decade, from which the band would begin backing off of even before the subsequent tour was over. Combining all of the aforementioned musical elements proved difficult, and they could never really fully commit to making it a techno/dance record or a straight-ahead rock record. As a result, the record straddles between the former(Discotheque, Do You Feel Loved, Mofo, Gone, Miami) and the latter(If God Will Send His Angels, Staring At The Sun, Last Night On Earth, Wake Up Dead Man), with several tracks that take from both(The Playboy Mansion, If You Wear That Velvet Dress, Please). The band struggled so much picking a direction and getting the songs to sound they way they'd envisioned that they used up tour rehearsal time(after having booked the tour ahead of time in their pre-album confidence) to finish, going to literally the last hour before the deadline to give the record to the record label. Because they used up tour rehearsal time to finish the album, they were underrehearsed and were embarrassed in the first few shows, took nearly the entire first leg of the tour to get into the swing of things.

Whatever confident state of mind they might have been in going into Pop, it was gone(no pun intended) by the time the record was released, the tour was underway, and neither was setting the U.S. on fire. They were playing to half-empty stadiums while the record was getting lukewarm reviews. Although the band's live performance was back up to their standards later in the tour(producing some truly great and memorable moments) , and the new material was better received elsewhere in the world, the record remains, and will probably always remain, the most polarizing entry in their catalog.

We can argue forever about why Pop flopped in the U.S., why nobody(relatively speaking) went to the shows, and why the band have behaved as though they are so ashamed of the whole era. We can argue forever about the band dressing up as the Village people, picking the wrong singles, continuing to push irony when people were tired of it, being too derivative of other hot acts at the time(Prodigy, Oasis) etc etc etc.

I frankly, think it might be as simple as they underestimated how much the musical landscape had changed in just a few years. In 1997, the pop revival was blooming - Backstreet Boys and Nsync were already there and Britney and Christina were on the way. Hip-hop was becoming a greater and greater mainstream force. Alternative rock was beginning its great decline; grunge was over and most of the rock music on the radio was of the Third Eye Blind/Matchbox 20/Wallflowers/Barenaked Ladies/etc pop-rock variety. More serious rock acts like Oasis and Radiohead were at their peak in terms of mainstream commercial success(Radiohead are great to this day, but they've never been as big in the mainstream as they were with OKC), same for harder acts like Marilyn Manson. The Nu-Metal scene was exploding, a harbinger of hip-hop taking over completely in the years to come.

Simply put, I think it might be as simple as the mainstream music listening audience in 1997 wasn't hungry for U2's brand of alternative rock anymore, particularly when said brand was artistically reaching away from what had made them huge in the first place.

Whatever the reasons, the album wasn't as successful as the band needed it to be(everything is relative, it did sell six million copies), especially in the U.S., and today there are two views of it. Some see it as a misstep, during which the band got lost in ambition and technology and concept and got swallowed by all of it(and from which they returned to form with ATYCLB and HTDAAB). Some, including many here, see it as a great, exciting, brave, and yes, flawed record. As something to aspire to, because even though its flawed and has its issues, at least they were trying to do something great and interesting and provocative.

Discotheque, however it's regarded in the mainstream, is just a really good rock song, with a monster guitar riff and numerous earworm vocal melodies - from the 'you can this but you can't that' repetitions, to 'you know you're chewing bubble gum...', to 'you get confused but you know it...', to the second part of the chorus('looking for the one/but you're somewhere else instead/I want to be the song/the song that you hear in your head') to the coda('but you take what you can get/'cause it's all that you can find' with Edge's 'you want heaven in your heart' in the background). Also some love for the instrumental breakdown after the first chorus which was never performed live and omitted from the 'new' mix in 2002. And I love the boom-chas.

Do You Feel Loved is arguably the sexiest track they've ever put to record, with a heavy but smooth sound and a huge chorus alongside a borderline x-rated lyric. I always thought should've been a single, and it's a shame they never nailed it live.

Mofo's tremendous bassline - the whole rhythm section really - and Bono's painfully inward-looking lyric that practically screams 'I may be a world famous rock star but I'm still just a child grappling with his mother's death and a man grappling with how to be a good father and husband while doing all of this' make it an intense headphone experience and an explosive live performance. As heavy a track as they've ever done.

If God Will Send His Angels takes the album on a left turn into more straight-ahead pop-rock territory. The closest thing to a ballad on this record other than Velvet Dress, I've always loved the minimalist riff, the vocal melodies, Bono's delivery, the lyric about someone at their wit's end regarding their faith, and the trip-hop coda of the album version.

Bono always though Staring At The Sun should've been a huge hit, and although some people think it's too bland or stale or Oasis-wannabe or whatever, I've always loved it. Immensely catchy, a big, warm guitar riff in the chorus, and a thought-provoking lyric. While I like the acoustic versions, I wish they would've come back to the full-band electric version live.

Last Night On Earth is just a huge rock song. From the first notes, everything is gaining momentum as it leads into that huge, earth-shaking chorus. This is one of the tracks I used to enjoy just turning up loud and rocking out to the most. And the live version. My goodness the riffage at the end. How the band thinks this didn't work live is beyond me.

Gone is just a tremendous song, from the crying sirens Edge gets out his guitar, to the powerful performance of the rhythm section, to Bono's impassioned vocal take, to the dark atmospherics and subtle, aching background vocals, to the great lyric, it's just clearly one of the best tracks here. This one needs to come back to the live set.

Miami is simultaneously a big joke here(U2 wrote Miami) and also greatly appreciated for its live renditions(in which the riffs get ten times bigger). Yes, the lyric is kind of crap, but even on the studio version, I find it be sonically pretty interesting with the riffs and the atmospherics between the riffs. If it had been recorded the way it was played live, I don't think it would be a joke here, bad lyric or not.

The Playboy Mansion frustrates me. Musically, I like it a lot - it's got a mellow vibe, but actually becomes sort of emotionally intense by the end, and there are some beautiful melodies in the middle eight('I don't know if I can hold on') and the 'then will there be no time' sections. But the a lot of the lyrics are just so dated with pop culture references. But then maybe that actually fits, since the song is kind of about the fleeting nature of success in pop culture.

If You Wear That Velvet Dress is an exceedingly atmospheric, captivating, and sexy ballad, delivered in that smokey 90s Bono voice. I just wish that vocal had been turned up a little in the mix because you can barely hear him until halfway through the song. Also have to mention the really nice, mellow guitar interlude in the middle. This track doesn't sound like anything else on the record, or anything else the band have ever done, really, but it's great.

Please. What can be said about Please that hasn't been said? It's one of their greatest songs, imo. Lyrically, it's political most of the way through, being about the troubles in Ireland, but then at the end - it might have still been intended to be political, but it also doubles as one of the most biting break-up lyrics I've ever seen - 'love is big/bigger than us/but love is not/what you're thinking of/it's what lovers deal/it's what lovers steal/you know I found it hard to receive/'cause you my love/I could never believe'. That will always be on my favorite lyrics that Bono ever wrote. Musically, Adam and Larry kind of own the song, with Edge kind playing a supporting role(until the end of the solo and live versions, obviously). The rhythm section is hypnotizing here, verging on jazzy, and I know a lot of people don't care for the single version because a lot of that is missing from it. I love all versions of the track. The album version is really intimate, and you can really feel the smoldering anger underneath it all; it's grittier, and it's also the only version that has that Edge backing vocal at the end that I love. The full-band live version, however, is considered by many as one of the greatest things the band has ever done, and rightly so. It's a fucking tour-de-force, from the band's performance, to Bono's performance to Bono and Edge singing together to Edge's solo to the quiet finish after the explosion. There is a reason Please is my holy grail of songs I've never seen performed in person.

Wake Up Dead Man is one of the darkest songs the band ever wrote. It's heavy, musically and lyrically. Musically, the song combines quiet vocals with heavy, succinct guitar riffs in the chorus until halfway through when the song picks up pace. Lyrically, it is a midnight of the soul, a crisis of faith, a breakdown. There is such anger there, especially in the first verse and chorus, both quiet anger and loud anger(the riff). It's riveting stuff, and one of the band's greatest album closers. IMO, only Love is Blindness definitively tops it, while others come close(The Troubles, Mothers Of The Disappeared, 40).

It is a flawed, and it's not for everyone, but for some, it is a powerful record, and one that stands in stark contrast stylistically, sonically, and spiritually to much of what came after. For some, it was a misstep, but for many others, this record marks the the end of 'old u2', a kind of last stand. In 1989, at one of the last Lovetown shows, Bono famously said 'this is just the end of something for U2'. He could've just as well said the same thing at one of the last Popmart shows. Months after the tour wrapped, the first Best Of was released and their VH1 Legends episode aired, the following year the classic albums documentary about the Joshua Tree was released, and the year after that they released the back-to-basics All That You Can't Leave Behind. The commercial and critical success that they had started to take for granted had been threatened with Pop and it seems like the band reacted to that. In the last fifteen years, after the Elevation tour, they've barely acknowledged the record.

But we can. Happy 20th, Pop.

A couple things. I don't know if it's constructive to keep referring to the album as "flawed", as if all four U2 albums that followed aren't. ATYCLB seems the least so, but the lack of ambition during the recording process in favor of quickly executing finely-honed compositions is a fatal flaw in itself as it doesn't speak to the band's true strengths of studio alchemy. The production of The Bomb has a good share of poor choices, and there's certainly no need to talk about all the compromises made during the recording of No Line and SOI.

Two other notes: I think the rhythm section of Last Night On Earth is pretty clubby, so despite the ferociousness of the guitar playing, I find it just as much as a rock-dance hybrid as Discotheque (and think it should have been the first single).

I'm not sure how dated the Playboy Mansion lyrics are: the pun on Michael Jackson's "History" compilation has even more resonance after his death. And considering this past year saw both an OJ Simpson documentary and TV drama miniseries, that's not exactly irrelevant 20 years later either. And of course, the USA hasn't become less consumerist or obsessed with celebrity in the interim.

And, for the ultra U2-nerds among us - here's a cool, rare documentary from that era


Fuck, I wish that whole Kurt Loder interview was in this clip; I've been looking for it for ages. There's a moment when they come back from a commercial break and Bono is singing the chorus of "No Diggity". It's hilarious.
 
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Pop is one of the great guitar albums and the Edge's finest moment. The variety of sounds he uses is astounding. He drops brilliant riffs left and right, just tossing them around like they're nothing but they're everything. Some of my favorite moments:


  • all of Discotheque. The layers, the variety and perfect usage of effects.
  • the grinding sustain during the bridge of DYFL leading into the corrosive chorus.
  • the screaming sustain on Mofo and Gone.
  • the solo on Velvet Dress. So understated and beautiful. His playing from then and through the rest of the song is beautiful.
  • the dry riff to Miami calling back to Discotheque, and both rawk more than any of their self-conscious attempts to rawk since then
  • Please. This is more of a Larry & Adam song but what the Edge plays is perfect, and he stays out of their way. The chorus riff is one of his best.

Yes!

-Discotheque gets me everytime. The riff itself is awesome. But I'm a sucker for the bridge section (when Bono oohs & sings heaven). Great stuff.

-The riffs and effects on top of DYFL & Mofo are just incredible. Making dance/techno beats into rock songs.

-The emotion of the riffs in harmony w/ Bono on IGWSHA.

-Big fan of electric SATS. I just love the sound of his guitar. He makes his guitar sound like the sun rising at the beginning.

-LNOE & Gone. Great rockers. Riffs & effects galore!

-Miami. Awesome riff when Edge drops in. Sounds like the Beastie Boys were in the studio playing guitar but its the Edge rocking

-Playboy Mansion. Again another sound that fits the song perfectly. Nice guitar playing too.

-Velvet Dress. Sound. Mood. Solo. Edge part of the seduction. Great work live too (intro)

-Please. Shining live and playing to Adam & Larry. Another use of effects.

-Wake Up Dead Man. Overlooked. Acoustics layers. Solos and effects towards the end.


Edge started to go to another level on War, UF, & JT. Then he really took it to another level on AB & Zooropa. The solos on AB are the best. But on Pop he put it all together. Its like Edge got lost in making each track stand out. They call Pop a dance record but Edge makes it a rocker/guitar album for U2.
 
POP was the last late night listen with headphones on U2 album for me. Velvet Dress into Please then into Dead Man was such a good sequencing of songs.
 
If only recent album delays were just a few months, rather than years.
 
Anyone else think that this is U2's most honest record? I mean that in the sense that it shows who they - particularly Bono - are the most? There's angst, for sure, but also a lot of humour. There's politics, personal ruminations, philosophy, and theology. I don't think it's their best album in terms of songs, but I think it's the ultimate U2 album in that it shows everything that they can do musically and addresses all of their lyrical concerns. There was really nowhere for them to go after this.
 
Anyone else think that this is U2's most honest record? I mean that in the sense that it shows who they - particularly Bono - are the most? There's angst, for sure, but also a lot of humour. There's politics, personal ruminations, philosophy, and theology. I don't think it's their best album in terms of songs, but I think it's the ultimate U2 album in that it shows everything that they can do musically and addresses all of their lyrical concerns. There was really nowhere for them to go after this.

I know what your saying. I think its the last great U2 album definitely from a lyrics stand point. And that might have to do with no where else to go. There are some heavy themes on ATYLCB. Stuck, Walk On, Kite, & When I Look At The World. But after that Bono has been looking back alot for lyric inspiration. He has great moments (NLOTH, MOS, Fez, Cedars, most of SOI) but yes Pop was a real personal album for the band.
 
I really really enjoyed watching the videos shared in this thread!

The album is very close to my heart. After getting into U2 via the Achtung singles on MTV at the time, I became hardcore with Pop. And defended it endlessly against ATYCLB in the early 00s. lol.

I still consider it their last greatest creative outburst before comfort, safety and mediocrity set in.
 
I think if the members of this forum had a vote, they would have voted for a 20th anniversary tour celebrating the release of POP over a 30th anniversary tour celebrating the Joshua Tree, which to me is very odd. For me POP is a broken record and the band made an excellent course correction with ATYCLB.
 
Sonically POP is, i think, also Edge's strongest album, in terms of exploration. he did cover a lot of grounds, not just "clean guitar with delay" thing that he did in the 80s.
 
Over at Rolling Stone's website, Pop's anniversary is acknowledged. The author of the article provides his favorite versions of Pop's songs.

Obviously, U2 will be celebrating the 30 anniversary of that other album :wink:, but perhaps for Pop's 25, they will acknowledge it in some way.
 
Pop is not a good U2 album...it's a 'different' U2 album for sure. They were trying too hard at this point, and while there's nothing wrong with experimenting the one thing is it can't feel contrived...which this album feels.

There are skeletons of great songs here, but nothing that is 'the' song that ties everything together. I think the Rolling Stone article sums it up nicely...:yes:
 
Pop is not a good U2 album...it's a 'different' U2 album for sure. They were trying too hard at this point, and while there's nothing wrong with experimenting the one thing is it can't feel contrived...which this album feels.

There are skeletons of great songs here, but nothing that is 'the' song that ties everything together. I think the Rolling Stone article sums it up nicely...:yes:

Couldn't disagree more. I think they were in a space where they really didn't care that much at all. If you look at the songs, you have maybe 3 that weren't that strong, at least in my opinion. Playboy, Miami, and for me, IGWSHA. It's a decent song, but just doesn't really do it for me.
Beyond that the rest are very good to great songs. Gone, Please, Mofo, DYFL, WUDM, etc... You can't have those songs on an album and not at least consider it "good".

I would put that up to any 2000-2009 album. ATYCLB, is considered by so many as one of their best, but when i remove the mediocre to poor songs, leaves me with about 5-6 good to great songs.
 
As someone who only became a fan of the band in the 21st Century, how I wish that I was consciously a U2 fan back in '97.

I remember when the album was released, with Discotheque as the lead single. I was 11. This weird music video debuted quite high up on the Top 50 Singles. I'd known of U2, but I didn't know all these mirrors and flashing lights and costumes and dodgy moustaches was what they are all about. I thought they were some sort of big rock band.

I wasn't convinced and watched the single tumble down the charts, with Staring at the Sun and Last Night On Earth charting as minor hits in months to come. I barely considered either the band or this pissweak-named "Pop" album of being worth my attention in any meaningful way.

Fast forward 5 years and my burgeoning obsession with the band saw me own my own copy of Pop. I loved it.

Fast forward 20 years and for me, Pop represents the clincher that solidifies U2 as one of music's all time greats. It's not a third "classic".. I'd say TUF and Boy probably have better claims, but it is what PoP represents from an artistic/career perspective.

It seems somewhat unfathomable now that U2 could have a released such a thing, a daring expedition into something mildly trip-hop, with patches of electronica and some fascinatingly diverse guitar lines throughout.

But Pop's very existence, coupled with their handful of genuine masterpieces, their longevity, stability and a uniquely captivating live experience, is what makes U2 extremely special.

Imagine if the band's career had ended in '98? Our whole regard for U2 would be incredibly different.
 
Couldn't disagree more. I think they were in a space where they really didn't care that much at all.

LOL...c'mon they 'cared' more about who and where they were musically than at any point in their career. Which is why the album feels contrived...to me...:yes:

They were 'trying' to incorporate hip and trip hop. They were 'trying' to mix dance grooves into their music. They were 'trying' to be 'hip' and 'stylish'.

I have no problem with U2 incorporating different styles and sounds in their music, but like SOI, they should just be, and not 'try so hard'. They were definitely trying to be something they weren't on Pop.

Pop is a decent album, but hard for me to listen to. I love Gone, I like Please other than that, it's and album of B-sides.
 
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I'm not sure why the musical influences here are more forced than before. This is what they were listening to, this is what they were excited by. It's not any less natural to me than what's on Zooropa or Passengers.
 
Everything U2 have done since War has been contrived. I don't think that's an insult, either, even though it sounds like one. Maybe calculated is the better word.

Every career move has been an attempt to grow into the biggest band in the world, and then once achieved, to stay there. Changing paths between the JT era and Zoo era was a conscious business decision as much as it was a creative one.

Every big "move" they've made has been in response to a commercial failure (other than War to UF, which I think is their purest creative move - although even there they still made sure to put the big chart topping single on the album rather than go all the way).
 
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Disagree.

I don't think Zooropa was anyone's idea of something that would maintain their level of popularity. It was really fucking out there for 1993. Same thing goes for choosing Numb as the lead single over considerably more accessible tracks.

And I would say the same thing about Passengers (though the decision to not release it under the U2 title can be debated in terms of the reasoning behind it).
 
Disagree.

I don't think Zooropa was anyone's idea of something that would maintain their level of popularity. It was really fucking out there for 1993. Same thing goes for choosing Numb as the lead single over considerably more accessible tracks.

And I would say the same thing about Passengers (though the decision to not release it under the U2 title can be debated in terms of the reasoning behind it).

By '93, U2 were about "fucking up the mainstream" which they were doing by releasing a song/video like Numb. Zooropa was about maintaining U2's level of creativity.
 
Happy birthday, Pop! You're not so bad!

I was in third grade in 1997 and didn't know who U2 was, but I do have a vague memory of seeing them on The Simpsons at some point back then.
 
Disagree.

I don't think Zooropa was anyone's idea of something that would maintain their level of popularity. It was really fucking out there for 1993. Same thing goes for choosing Numb as the lead single over considerably more accessible tracks.

And I would say the same thing about Passengers (though the decision to not release it under the U2 title can be debated in terms of the reasoning behind it).

:up:

This endless debate between fans who think they were being adventurous/taking risks in the 90s vs. those who think they were as calculated as ever.. gets more and more tiring every year. Bottom line is that nobody knows for sure. And the band themselves seem to only be happy distancing themselves from that era, specifically Pop/Popmart. Sadly. So what's the friggin' point? Let's just reminisce the fantastic album that was POP. :heart:
 
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