Cosmos Thoughts 1: Why/How?

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CosmoKramer

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U2 strives for the "perfect" song/album (as do all artists) but how in the heck do some massive imperfections make it on to the album?

1) All Because of you(album cut): Bono seems to sing the chorus to soon and he screams to to the point where it is not singing but screaming, specifically the word "All". The last time he sings/screams the chorus it really sounds mistimed. They fixed this on the single version from what I can tell.

2) Sometime you Can't Make It on Your Own: his voice strains several times to the point where you think he won't be able to recover but he does. I get it's about his father and that's emotional but really, no better takes? Specifically, when he sings "HEY NOW I gotta let you Know".

3) (The ultimate how did that make it) Crazy Tonight: His voice cracks/strains two times to the point where it's embarrassing. Specially, when he sings "You haven't HEARD" it sounds terrible


For a band that seems to spend so much time in production, why wouldn't this have been caught this? Or is it that they were fine with it?


How wasn't this caught in production?
 
All Because of You is just a giant mistake in general.

I've always wondered about the pathetic falsetto in Crazy Tonight. Part of me thinks that it's some sort of potential self-degrading intentional thing.
 
I'm under the impression that the voice cracks are always intentional, grating though they might be. The Crazy Tonight ones really bug me.


I remember listening to Crazy for the first time in my room and I was like " this is a really good sooooh my god what was that". I still like the song but Ill never love it because of what I consider to be a massive imperfection.
 
The odd vocal choices on ABOY were intentional, and meant to be 'interesting' twists on what was probably a more standard vocal approach to begin with.

The cracks and breaks in Sometimes, especially the '... Fake it' portion were likely unintentional when Bono sang, but were definitely included in the final cut intentionally, as it reflected the tragic, emotional nature of a song about Bono's deceased father. I believe this was documented in U2 by U2, but I'd have to look it up.

Crazy Tonight's falsetto ..um.. Attempt always sounded to me like a playful throwback to the more serious falsetto crack in SYCMIOYO. It worked then, so why not again, right? Not so much in this case, but you don't flub something that badly and leave it on the record without meaning to. You're supposed to view this and ABOY's vocal irregularities as an artist's whimsy, you see.
 
I remember listening to Crazy for the first time in my room and I was like " this is a really good sooooh my god what was that". I still like the song but Ill never love it because of what I consider to be a massive imperfection.

Same here. The song starts good, but the first crazy "tonight" falsetto is just.. "wtf is this shit"/
 
2) Sometime you Can't Make It on Your Own: his voice strains several times to the point where you think he won't be able to recover but he does. I get it's about his father and that's emotional but really, no better takes? Specifically, when he sings "HEY NOW I gotta let you Know".

From what I understood, Bono insisted that the vocal be "one take". Initially thought to mean he only sang it once in the studio, but then later clarified to indicate that he did sing it a few times, but wanted it the final product to be one whole take, not the best of various takes spliced together. So that would be the take he was overall most happy with, a crack or two notwithstanding.

I personally have no problems with this track I think it works and the song in general is amazing.
 
I like the cracks, and I like ABOY. I'm glad to know that about SYCMIOYO. I was just wondering which of their songs have been done in complete takes the other day.
 
F*ck. Someone already beat me to the Sagan/deGrasse Tyson joke.

Curses!

With regard to the songs, Crazy Tonight is unlistenable and SYCMIOYO is boring as a dog's ass (he's done a lot better songs about dad). I remember being bored to and wanting to skip the latter even the first time I heard it. Have no idea how that one became so popular.

All Because of You, however, while no classic isn't that bad at all.
 
I always thought Dirty Day seemed more personal and more about Bono's dad than SYCMIOYO. The latter song always rubbed me the wrong way, like they just coasted on the strength of the subject matter, not bothering to do anything actually interesting musically with it. Plus, it's the kind of song that I could probably only appreciate at a funeral, where the emotions of the day would forgive any musical shortcomings. But as a piece of recorded music I'd actually want to listen to more than once? Nah.
 
Cracks were fine. Until the bizzare yelps in Crazy...how did that go unchecked ?
 
U2 strives for the "perfect" song/album (as do all artists) but how in the heck do some massive imperfections make it on to the album?
Because an artist's definition of "perfect" does not mean technically without flaw according to European music school 101. If we were to accept this model of what's perfect, then a huge chunk of the most important recordings of the 20th century (esp. American ones) would have to be labeled mistakes.
1) All Because of you(album cut): Bono seems to sing the chorus to soon and he screams to to the point where it is not singing but screaming, specifically the word "All". The last time he sings/screams the chorus it really sounds mistimed. They fixed this on the single version from what I can tell.
I haven't got the track handy to check the latter thing, but I've always admired and enjoyed his vocal on this song. Nothing wrong with some screaming in rock'n'roll, and, again, vocals being "mistimed" is actually an essential part of the entire blues/jazz pantheon, itself the parent of rock'n'roll. If they left it on the master, it was certainly intentional.
(Note: If you didn't know it already, 'All Because of You' is probably the most hated U2 song on this forum, for reasons I've never been able to fathom.)
2) Sometime you Can't Make It on Your Own: his voice strains several times...
Give me voice strain any day over the omnipresent artificial auto-tuned crap that dominates pop today! (I can't say "pop recordings" anymore, as they're not recordings -- they're digital creations.)
3) (The ultimate how did that make it) Crazy Tonight: His voice cracks/strains two times to the point where it's embarrassing. Specially, when he sings "You haven't HEARD" it sounds terrible
On this, I fully agree it sounds terrible, and actually I think this is the worst and most embarrassing song U2 has ever done. Still, if they kept it, they didn't consider it a mistake. (In my opinion, all of Bono's vocals on NLOTH are overcooked and way overdone, actually spoiling some of the songs.)
 
I always thought Dirty Day seemed more personal and more about Bono's dad than SYCMIOYO. The latter song always rubbed me the wrong way, like they just coasted on the strength of the subject matter, not bothering to do anything actually interesting musically with it. Plus, it's the kind of song that I could probably only appreciate at a funeral, where the emotions of the day would forgive any musical shortcomings. But as a piece of recorded music I'd actually want to listen to more than once? Nah.

"Dirty Day" is about Charles Bukowski's relationship with his father, more than anything else. And his relationship with his father was brutal.

Obviously, the song presents the universal wisdom that a father's treatment of his son will invariably influence his son's influence on the grandson, which is encapsulated, however slyly, in the line "A work that's never done, father to son." As in: if you f-ck up your son, that's going to live on in perpetuity through the generations.
 
Bono has always been a dramatic singer, but I wish he would reign in the intentional voice cracks. He has a strong voice, and he could use it without adding all the weird affectations. The live performances of "Ordinary Love" are embarrassing as hell - he's trying too hard. The song is also in a key he apparently can't sing in. Perhaps that's what strains his voice. I'm no musician, but lately I can't listen to a number of U2 songs without getting the idea that his caterwauling sounds really out of tune.
 
Bono has always been a dramatic singer, but I wish he would reign in the intentional voice cracks. He has a strong voice, and he could use it without adding all the weird affectations. The live performances of "Ordinary Love" are embarrassing as hell - he's trying too hard. The song is also in a key he apparently can't sing in. Perhaps that's what strains his voice. I'm no musician, but lately I can't listen to a number of U2 songs without getting the idea that his caterwauling sounds really out of tune.

I have enjoyed Bono's singing of late. When you say "caterwauling", I think of the original recording of NYD on "War". That was some serious strain and sharp notes. I rarely listen to that version as a result.

As for "Crazy", I dislike the version on NLOTH so much, I honestly have no idea what it sounds like any more. But I love the version they did in concert.
 
U2 strives for the "perfect" song/album (as do all artists) but how in the heck do some massive imperfections make it on to the album?

like the fact that the bass in the album version of Please is a half step out of tune with the rest of the music? (later corrected in single version)
#canofworms
 
like the fact that the bass in the album version of Please is a half step out of tune with the rest of the music? (later corrected in single version)

#canofworms


Really? Now I need to go listen again to the album version.

I never really cared for Please but the strings single version is far superior to the album cut.
 
Really? Now I need to go listen again to the album version.

I never really cared for Please but the strings single version is far superior to the album cut.

oh yeah.. that single version is great! I do like some of the atmospheric murkiness of the album version though.
 
Cosmos: A Spacetime Odyssey is both ambitious and quaint. It attempts to convey humanity’s most expansive ideas in the space of a weekly 44-minute TV series. That’s ambitious. The show is also unabashed in its commitment to truth—it matter-of-factly presents what we know about the universe, what we’re pretty sure about, and what we don’t know yet. Cosmos doesn’t hedge: You won’t hear the narrator, astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson, neuter any of his statements with a gratuitous “some people believe…” counterpoint. He states the truth as a broad scientific consensus understands it today. In a media environment where truth has to compete with a “balance” designed to prevent hurt feelings, Cosmos’ straightforward tack is quaint—laudably so.
Grandeur and forthrightness were also essential ingredients of Carl Sagan’s original Cosmos: A Personal Voyage program—which first aired on PBS in 1980—and the new Cosmos doesn’t stray far from the template that Sagan laid out. Like its inspiration, the Fox reboot (which also airs on National Geographic Channel) mixes awe-inspiring explorations of the universe with earthbound tales of scientists and thinkers. “Standing Up In The Milky Way” features two clever conceptualizations of our place in space and time, first zooming out farther and farther from our planet to establish Earth’s “cosmic address,” and then condensing the history of the universe into a single year—the “cosmic calendar.” (This latter device was also used on the first episode of Sagan’s show.)
The “cosmic address” sequence that opens tonight’s premiere is how Cosmos puts its best foot forward. Cruising in a computer-generated “ship of the imagination,” Tyson narrates a travelogue through space as we know it, one that begins at Earth and proceeds to the edges of the known universe—ending with a brief glimpse of a vast, theoretical multiverse. This is a visual-effects extravaganza, and Cosmos doesn’t hesitate to indulge in eye candy. But the true feat here is how Cosmos’ imagery overcomes our puny ability to conceive huge spaces. Each line on the cosmic address follows clearly from the last, and the sequence’s methodical buildup lets viewers acquire a sliver of insight into our universe’s baffling bigness or, to put it another way, our pathetic smallness.
Tyson’s explanation of the comet-filled Oort Cloud that surrounds the solar system is rushed and confusing, a rare off-key moment in the opening segments. But that stumble foreshadows sloppy scripting that crops up more often later in the episode. The cosmic calendar is an elegant way to talk about the age of the universe without losing perspective in the boggling billions of years that came before us. Yet Tyson’s narration jumps fitfully between the contrived time of the calendar and the real time of actual history, which makes for a scattered presentation. The calendar segments are also hurt by a few hokey moments, like when Tyson slides on a pair of sunglasses, à la David Caruso, to watch the Big Bang. This silliness only distracts from what ought to be a moment of wonder.
I’m quibbling. The cosmic calendar is still beautiful and moving. Sure, Sagan did it a bit better—although, frankly, his cosmic calendar journey was sometimes confusing, too—but each installment of Sagan’s Cosmos had nearly a full hour to work with; this Cosmos covers roughly equivalent ground in about 44 minutes’ time. And the thinking behind the sunglasses move is clear: Not everything can be stunning. The show needs to leaven its big ideas with grounded touches to keep its epic majesty from growing banal. That’s the rub. If there is one characteristic flaw in the show so far, it is a struggle to communicate on the human level as well as it does on the cosmic scale.
This weakness is troublesome in the address and calendar segments; it becomes glaring in the middle portion of the episode, which tells the story of a 16th-century Dominican friar, Giordano Bruno. Imprisoned and ultimately executed by the Roman Inquisition, Bruno challenged conventional wisdom with his vision of an infinite universe full of suns and planets like our own. The Bruno story is animated, and perhaps this is the influence of executive producer Seth MacFarlane at work. If so, MacFarlane should have dipped a little deeper into his Rolodex. The animation is stiff, drab, and ugly—out of sync with the world-class visual effects that grace the rest of the show.
Bruno’s life story is used by Cosmos to advance a variety of messages, with mixed success. Most prominently, it’s a ham-fisted cautionary tale that shows how the earthly interests of organized religion act as a threat to free thought. Most artfully, the Bruno segments demonstrate how imagination, properly contextualized, is an important part of the scientific process. Tyson hastens to note that Bruno’s on-the-right-track visions of the cosmos were merely a “guess”—they had no evidence to support them—but that his ideas were still important because they “gave others a target to aim at, if only to disprove it.”
That concluding sentiment aside, Tyson’s narration is at its worst in the Giordano Bruno story, with notes of condescension and hyperbole. At one point, for instance, Tyson adopts dire tones to cast Bruno’s persecutors as the “thought police,” which is pouring it on thick. The Inquisition does not need to be made more dystopian—it’s the freaking Inquisition. Tin-eared touches like these give the impression that the show is dumbing itself down for viewers, and while the line between dumbing-down and simplification may be thin, it’s Cosmos’ job to stay on the right side of the divide.
Carl Sagan’s communicative gifts lay not just in his ability to frame science in approachable terms, but also in his delivery. While the astronomer’s odd voice—sounding like it got accidentally lodged somewhere between his throat and his nose—may have been mocked by comedians, it worked to his advantage. Thanks in part to that quirky speaking style and his gawkish overbite, Sagan was an earthbound personality. He didn’t came off as the vaunted expert speaking down to his subjects. He was a peer—merely another human, exulting with his audience in the marvelous truths that science has brought to light. Where Sagan spoke with a calm confidence, Tyson is often insistent. Both of them have earnest enthusiasm; Tyson is simply pushing too hard.
Tyson may relax into his role as TV communicator yet, however. The premiere concludes with a remembrance of Sagan. Tyson recaps some of his predecessor’s scientific accomplishments, and then he tells the story of the first time he met Sagan. In these two minutes, Tyson finds a greater poignance than anything in the interminable Giordano Bruno sequence, and he does so by speaking from the heart about a friend. This echoes Sagan’s greatest gift as a communicator: He implicitly treated all people as friends, with a bottomless compassion for the human race. Tyson shows glimpses of that same affection, and the show could use more of it from him—not necessarily in an overt way, but detectable beneath the surface.
The most inspirational moment of this premiere is almost a throwaway line, and it comes during an explanation of the Big Bang. “It’s as far back as we can see in time,” Tyson says. There’s a pause before he adds, “For now.” Two words speak to the fundamental hope—or faith, maybe—of science, which is that through hard work, we can banish the dark of the greatest unknowns. (It’s a notion that doesn’t have to be incompatible with religious faiths, as “Standing Up In The Milky Way” briefly acknowledges.) Is this the spiritual side of scientific endeavor? “Spiritual” can be a junk word, a self-descriptor used by people who don’t have religion but still believe in, you know, stuff. But if we define spirituality as the awareness of an order and connectedness much greater than ourselves, then yes, Cosmos is a spiritual show, and a mostly compelling one at that. Its gospel has the added benefit of being truth—or as close as we can come, for now.
 
"Dirty Day" is about Charles Bukowski's relationship with his father, more than anything else. And his relationship with his father was brutal.

Obviously, the song presents the universal wisdom that a father's treatment of his son will invariably influence his son's influence on the grandson, which is encapsulated, however slyly, in the line "A work that's never done, father to son." As in: if you f-ck up your son, that's going to live on in perpetuity through the generations.

Somehow I let this slip by.

I know that Dirty Day was inspired by Bukowski. I have the U2: Into The Heart Book.

That said, I've always believed Bukowski was just the jumping off point for Bono's lyrics. In the words of Oscar Wilde: "man is least himself when he talks in his own person; give him a mask and he will tell you the truth." So while Bono might insist that Dirty Day is just a made-up father and son tale inspired by Bukowski's harsh upbringing, it still can't help but sound like he's subconsciously exorcising his own demons. That's the way it sounds to me. In contrast with SYCMIOYO where Bono is seemingly talking in his own person, yet to me it comes off disingenuous.
 
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