Bono's lyrics since POP

[j72]

Hope you won't mind me starting this Lemon Melon, your point here interested me, namely: Stayed up longer than i intended tonight so bear with me but hopefully discussion may possibly develop and be shared/expanded when i am more awake if this interests people or it may just plummet down the board, will see i guess.

"I think Bono fearing this sort of reaction is why he took a nosedive as a lyricist following Pop IMO. Generic, all-encompassing lyrics that ultimately mean nothing have become a lot more common than intriguing compositions like this one. Many great literary works have universal themes buried in allegories, and this track has a character with a misanthropic streak confronting what he feels is wrong with humanity, his profession, etc. while exiled in Lebanon. It's interesting, it's a gamble. I completely approve of it."


This was obviously partly in connection to the Rate the song, Cedars of Lebannon thread but i am interested in the way Bono's writing seem to me to have changed since POP. You have helped further highlight this for me and i like what you say about him gambling witht eh way he approached Cedars and it seems for some fans it paid off handsomely.

I would say there is some, both wonderfully immediately personal stuff along with character written but very emotionally affecting stuff nonetheless in his lyrics since POP.

BUT YEAH sometimes it feels to me alternately wooly/overthought out or lacking in impact and resonance. Very subjective this obviously but for me, as a case in point of different way he writes and how both approaches can get to me:
Sometimes you can't make it on your own was both very personal and beautiful while Character driven narratives such as Cedars of lebannon and White as Snow were very powerful, very beautiful in their own way.

NLOTH may i think be one of the u2 albums which may have in the end the most enduring impact on me, i think a review said as much in one of their reviews at the time and it now seems quite prophetic for me. It is not a perfect album but it has mystery, soul, adventure and clarity to me (musically as well as lyrically), if that makes any kind of strange sense to anybody out there.

 

[DevilsShoes]

I've always felt the 90's were Bono's most creative as a lyricist, some of the stuff he was coming up with felt genuinely inspired.

His songwriting managed to be both organic and incisive without ever seeming overly-fussy or contrived. A lot of that material still strikes a deep chord in me.

I think, by and large, he got away with it on ATYCLB. The lyrics are more generic but I guess that's the price they had to pay to recapture their commercial clout. Despite this however, the material on this album still has a resonance and impact. He'd been running away from this sort of thing for 10 years, so to suddenly revisit it again at the start of a new decade felt fresh, it did seem like he had something new to say, although it's arguable whether these songs really stack up to the greats of the past.

Contrast this to HTDAAB and it's clear he's running out of road, and fast. The songwriting here is, IMO, the most convoluted and forced of his career, with only one or two moments carrying genuine weight. Something he must have felt too since he decided to change his entire approach on NLOTH.

This was a good idea as it gave the whole thing a little more mileage and the music another dimension. MOS, WAS and Cedars are all stand out moments but an awful lot of the rest of the album rings hollow, at least to my ears.

As many people have pointed out, NLOTH tries to have its cake and eat it. It's trying to bolt the brilliantly audacious with the all-encompassing banal and, unsurprisingly, it's an uneasy fit.

The problem is that Bono's done this kind of anthemic stuff so well before that he's obviously finding it difficult to put a new spin on it. Unfortunately, too much of the time, there's plenty of 'sound and fury' but not enough substance to make it truly meaningful.

Classic U2 always had the courage of its convictions and I think this has been lost somewhere in the desire to be everything to everyone.

 

[Nick66]

I've always felt the 90's were Bono's most creative as a lyricist, some of the stuff he was coming up with felt genuinely inspired.

His songwriting managed to be both organic and incisive without ever seeming overly-fussy or contrived. A lot of that material still strikes a deep chord in me.

I think, by and large, he got away with it on ATYCLB. The lyrics are more generic but I guess that's the price they had to pay to recapture their commercial clout. Despite this however, the material on this album still has a resonance and impact. He'd been running away from this sort of thing for 10 years, so to suddenly revisit it again at the start of a new decade felt fresh, it did seem like he had something new to say, although it's arguable whether these songs really stack up to the greats of the past.

Contrast this to HTDAAB and it's clear he's running out of road, and fast. The songwriting here is, IMO, the most convoluted and forced of his career, with only one or two moments carrying genuine weight. Something he must have felt too since he decided to change his entire approach on NLOTH.

This was a good idea as it gave the whole thing a little more mileage and the music another dimension. MOS, WAS and Cedars are all stand out moments but an awful lot of the rest of the album rings hollow, at least to my ears.

As many people have pointed out, NLOTH tries to have its cake and eat it. It's trying to bolt the brilliantly audacious with the all-encompassing banal and, unsurprisingly, it's an uneasy fit.

The problem is that Bono's done this kind of anthemic stuff so well before that he's obviously finding it difficult to put a new spin on it. Unfortunately, too much of the time, there's plenty of 'sound and fury' but not enough substance to make it truly meaningful.

Classic U2 always had the courage of its convictions and I think this has been lost somewhere in the desire to be everything to everyone.

Excellent comment. I agree w/pretty much every word.

Refreshing to read something so cogent on these pages.

 

[The Panther]

Classic U2 always had the courage of its convictions and I think this has been lost somewhere in the desire to be everything to everyone.

 

[doctorwho]

I've always felt the 90's were Bono's most creative as a lyricist, some of the stuff he was coming up with felt genuinely inspired.

His songwriting managed to be both organic and incisive without ever seeming overly-fussy or contrived. A lot of that material still strikes a deep chord in me.

I think, by and large, he got away with it on ATYCLB. The lyrics are more generic but I guess that's the price they had to pay to recapture their commercial clout. Despite this however, the material on this album still has a resonance and impact. He'd been running away from this sort of thing for 10 years, so to suddenly revisit it again at the start of a new decade felt fresh, it did seem like he had something new to say, although it's arguable whether these songs really stack up to the greats of the past.

Contrast this to HTDAAB and it's clear he's running out of road, and fast. The songwriting here is, IMO, the most convoluted and forced of his career, with only one or two moments carrying genuine weight. Something he must have felt too since he decided to change his entire approach on NLOTH.

This was a good idea as it gave the whole thing a little more mileage and the music another dimension. MOS, WAS and Cedars are all stand out moments but an awful lot of the rest of the album rings hollow, at least to my ears.

As many people have pointed out, NLOTH tries to have its cake and eat it. It's trying to bolt the brilliantly audacious with the all-encompassing banal and, unsurprisingly, it's an uneasy fit.

The problem is that Bono's done this kind of anthemic stuff so well before that he's obviously finding it difficult to put a new spin on it. Unfortunately, too much of the time, there's plenty of 'sound and fury' but not enough substance to make it truly meaningful.

Classic U2 always had the courage of its convictions and I think this has been lost somewhere in the desire to be everything to everyone.

This was well stated and I agree.

ATYCLB did have some "fluff" moments and I don't mind that. Not every song has to be something deep and brilliant. The sheer fun of "Elevation" and the joy of the song (one can't resist shouting "a mole digging in a hole" in concert) makes up for some of the simpler lyrics. That said, even the "I and I in the sky" is a rather clever way of referring to one's self and to God. But with songs like "Walk On" and even "Beautiful Day", I feel the song-writing is quite solid, especially for a more "pop" album.

HTDAAB did have some great moments. I still like "Vertigo" for all themes covered by the song. But I agree with your assessment - already the simple "pop tunes" idea was starting to wear thin.

In the 80's, Bono had some great moments and I felt his lyrics were strong. But that was in comparison to other 80's hits, which were even more fluff pop songs or big hair band songs. "Pride" and WOWY aren't lyrical greats (a few good analogies, but not Bono's best), but they come across as poetic masterpieces when compared to their colleagues. However, 90's Bono dug deep and I felt his lyrics were at his best (few exceptions here and there).

I too was happy to see U2 return to some great-songwriting and lyrics with NLOTH. Sure, they still slipped up ("Crazy") but overall, it is a very solid album and perhaps U2's best since AB (IMO). I hope this trend continues. And if U2 need this extra time to create at that level, then it would be worth it, even if their next album doesn't have "lots of hits".

 

[U2girl]

I like the irony of critisism of lyrics on HTDAAB compared to the discreet hype of lyrics on ATYCLB. Both of similar quality and themes...

And appealing to everyone has been their m.o. forever.

Risky ? Cedars of Lebanon is, musically and the mood/delivery, as close to Pop as U2 can get.

 

[Nick66]

.

 

[j72]

I have really enjoyed the posts here so far. I think the point about the band having the courage of their convictions and not trying to cover all bases or be all things to all people is a succinct and very accurate point.

I would also add that some of the most powerful points in music can be non literal for me or non verbal and Bono can be a master of that both on record or on stage. I also agree with Doctor Who wholeheartedly that not all songs have to be deep and meaningful.

I guess the question for me, and continuing the initial point of this post though is Does it sound like u2 at Their Core? this goes beyond a certain sound -Achtung Baby and Zooropa were among their most different and also the most wonderfully u2 for me.

They were occupying their space in that moment, even though some fans seemed them to want to remain in the joshua tree/rattle and hum period. I think Zooropa the song was a great example of playing with modern buzzwords BUT NOT being subsumed by them. The piece is both (to me) chilling, playful, meaningful and also above, perhaps all stimulating and life affirming music.

I feel sometimes in his later work Bono has been hijacked rather than inspired by 'buzzwords' 'slang' 'Hipness' etc. I also personally prefer him to sound naturally clumsy but somehow real (i.e. Original Of the species, imo) than contrived i.e. Stand Up Comedy/Get on your ('Lead') boots.


I personally wouldn't mind see him playing further with his lyrical/vocal style even further if it felt 'Him' or at least a direction towards an area that might feel a little uncomfortable at first but was somehow him and the bands, becoming increasingly so, if that makes sense.

Perhaps? and i am far from sure about this, NLOTH was a certain step towards this, in certain sections of the album, i for one hope so!

 

[doctorwho]

I like the irony of critisism of lyrics on HTDAAB compared to the discreet hype of lyrics on ATYCLB. Both of similar quality and themes...

And appealing to everyone has been their m.o. forever.

Risky ? Cedars of Lebanon is, musically and the mood/delivery, as close to Pop as U2 can get.

I'm not criticizing lyrics on HTDAAB vs. ATYCLB. Yes, they both are similar. However, on ATYCLB it was a change for U2. As a result of a "new sound" and new image, ATYCLB came across as a bit more refreshing. In contrast, HTDAAB was almost a repeat. So it lost that "new" effect.

It's similar to JT and R&H. While TUF was a change for U2, JT mastered that sound and style. Hence, it really stood out from TUF. But by R&H, that style was starting to wear just a bit thin. When U2 changed with AB, it came across as refreshing. Same with ATYCLB.

NLOTH is a change again. But as it wasn't this huge hit, it may lurk in TUF waters. That is, if U2 can master that sound and style once more (with songs like "Breathe", NLOTH, MOS, "White as Snow", etc. and skip the "Crazy" nonsense) they may really have something on their next album.

And it could be to get to that level of excellence, U2 need more time. Otherwise, as Bono said, why have another U2 album?

 

[doctorwho]

.

I agree with your point.

*snicker* - get it - point.

 

[Globo14]

I agree with your point.

*snicker* - get it - point.

Well done.

 

[U2girl]

I'm not criticizing lyrics on HTDAAB vs. ATYCLB. Yes, they both are similar. However, on ATYCLB it was a change for U2. As a result of a "new sound" and new image, ATYCLB came across as a bit more refreshing. In contrast, HTDAAB was almost a repeat. So it lost that "new" effect.

It's similar to JT and R&H. While TUF was a change for U2, JT mastered that sound and style. Hence, it really stood out from TUF. But by R&H, that style was starting to wear just a bit thin. When U2 changed with AB, it came across as refreshing. Same with ATYCLB.

NLOTH is a change again. But as it wasn't this huge hit, it may lurk in TUF waters. That is, if U2 can master that sound and style once more (with songs like "Breathe", NLOTH, MOS, "White as Snow", etc. and skip the "Crazy" nonsense) they may really have something on their next album.

And it could be to get to that level of excellence, U2 need more time. Otherwise, as Bono said, why have another U2 album?

I meant in general, nothing aganist any particular poster or your well-thought out posts.

Eh, the change was overhyped (musically, I agree Bono went into a new direction with the lyrics). There are two songs that point in a new direction, but otherwise NLOTH evokes all eras of U2, it's just more clever with recycling the past than HTDAAB.

 

[j72]

Eh, the change was overhyped (musically, I agree Bono went into a new direction with the lyrics). There are two songs that point in a new direction, but otherwise NLOTH evokes all eras of U2, it's just more clever with recycling the past than HTDAAB. I like what u2 girl said here:

I think musically there were two songs that stood out most for me Cedars and white as snow. I love the spaciousness as well as lyrical depth in these. MOS is up there as well, though i have heard echoes of that kind of feel before. I think Bonos lyrics can work really well when given space to really resonate, when they are not overly self conscious/overblown.

Hlyrically as well as musically i like what he tries with Breathe, it feels to me like a kind of squeezebox effect with the revved up rappy style lrics followed by the relaxing of pace and space with the "walk out" chorus bit, i like that contrast.

It seems to me from what i remember that the band and steve lilly white said, they have been excited by some of what they have done and hopefully they may push on from that.. but backtracked, overthought and perhaps blanded out on certain parts. I will also happily admit to enjoying Crazy too.

 

[lemonfly]

I thought NLOTH marked a big recovery in his writing. And it's no accident that the most interesting lyrical moments on the album (MOS, WAS and Cedars) are when he writes from the perspective of a different character (drug addict, cop, war correspondent). And I think this is because he actually ran out of inspiration when writing from his own perspective. This was especially true of Bomb. His lyrics on Bomb are by and large obvious, dull and hackneyed. When he was writing songs "as Bono" there was very little of genuine interest. Who wants to hear the musical ramblings of a middle-aged rock star? Indeed, there is nothing worse than an aging rocker telling everyone what's wrong in the world. It's an instant turn-off. Bono had to adopt the different mentality of an everyday person to be lyrically astute again, and I hope he continues this strategy on the next album.

 

[j72]

"Bono had to adopt the different mentality of an everyday person to be lyrically astute again, and I hope he continues this strategy on the next album."

By Lemonfly

I enjoyed reading all your post Lemonfly, i personally find it the most continuously stimulating, different and affecting record they have written for quite a while. I find it interesting how writing from perspective can involve me deeper than some (with some exceptions) of his recent work. I also feel that MOS does sound very personal to him despite the character work. The way he sings for example

I tied myself with wire
To let the horses run free
Playing with the fire
Till the fire played with me

what a stunning opening

and then

It’s not if I believe in love
But if love believes in me
Oh, believe in me

We are talking about lyrics but the way they are sung of course, with the music, He just sounds so passionate, heartfelt and really feels the words, it hits and works me over, Beautiful!!

I am ALSO Wondering at the moment with his recent questioning of how relevant U2 can STILL be whether this might? have stung him into some REENERGISED personal stuff again. It's just a thought i don't know. I am also thinking how they described themselves as feeling pretty irrelevant before AB and Zooropa and what that drew out of him and the band.

The rest of the band were reportedly pissed off with Bono's recent questioning (so long as his musings were not purely for affect) could this be a healthy, creative tension. I am not suggesting by the way massive rifts but maybe all this might creatively push the band on?

graspings of a hopeful fan? or...real possibilities.