mikal
Blue Crack Addict
Bono sexually harassed Leo’s mother which makes me very angry for personal reasons.
The most problematic thing to me seems to be this notion that we must provide an outlet for "young male rage" - I mean, really? Looking back at history, it really doesn't seem like they've had a lack of a way of expressing it, at the expense of others.
Then how come so many of these young males who commit mass violence listen to this "rage" music but do it anyway? Honestly I think it's a bit naive to think that music is going to be an outlet that prevents that.I didn't have to assume anything...I just read what you wrote.
If what you meant to say by saying it's problematic that "we must provide an outlet for "young male rage" was actually that yes, it's important that young males have an outlet to channel that rage into music, so that it doesn't get channeled into other (perhaps violent) places, why then yes, we agree that it's important that young males have this outlet.
Then how come so many of these young males who commit mass violence listen to this "rage" music but do it anyway? Honestly I think it's a bit naive to think that music is going to be an outlet that prevents that.
We could sure use some "girly" ways to counteract that.
“I know the rage in you is strong
Write a world where we can belong”
Once again, I don’t think Bono is equating “rage” to aggression or violence. I think he’s talking about the rage like he had that made him need to write songs like SBS or Bullet.
On a different note, I like reading all the discussion here about the metal genre and the passionate community surrounding it. Metal isn't a genre I follow much-I like a few metal songs here and there, but it's not a genre I'm super familiar with. So it's neat to get an inside glimpse of what the subculture is like and whatnot . And mama cass, your daughter sounds like a kickass person. I wish her all the success with her music career.
If, by viewpoints that differ from my own, you mean people who post racist, sexist, white supremacist views, then yes, I PROUDLY stand against them, and make no bones about the fact that racism, white supremacy and sexism are not welcome here. If that’s an issue for you, then tough shit. I’m not here to coddle those who want to normalize racism, sexism and white supremacy, and if you have an issue with it, then frankly, it makes me question your moral character.
And finally, publicly attacking a moderator, regardless of your or their political leanings, is a sure fire ticket out of here, and given your attitude, I’m happy to say: good riddance.
Also, re the full interview, I was glad to see Suu Kyi come up.
They’re still trying to normalize kicking a female photographer in the face...
I’m sure they won’t be the only ones. Artists and fans who normally would have just rolled their eyes anything Bono said are now going to view him as an asshole. Guy Oseary better have someone on damage control.
U2’s lyrics have not a hint of misogyny as far as I know. Nor do they promote violence,
I didn't have to assume anything...I just read what you wrote.
If what you meant to say by saying it's problematic that "we must provide an outlet for "young male rage" was actually that yes, it's important that young males have an outlet to channel that rage into music, so that it doesn't get channeled into other (perhaps violent) places, why then yes, we agree that it's important that young males have this outlet.
Bono said an inelegant, incorrect thing in a sprawling, comprehensive interview. He’ll be called out for it, and should be, and will clarify, and should. We all seem to understand what he meant while at the same time able to identify what and why his words were poorly chosen.
Next.
What irritates me, aside from sexist bias encoded in language, is the joy some get from kicking someone who has always been one of the good guys. Always. Good guys are imperfect, and often fall short. Help them be better, because you’re imperfect too.
This made the news in MN on a local station. Labeling Bono a sexist. There are people that will walk away from that story assuming he is a sexist which is a shame. His statement was poor and I'm sure he would reword if he had the chance. I'm not excusing him for not thinking that through a bit more. But the media's aggressive attack on people who say the wrong thing is completely out of line. It is all about ratings. Creating a world where people need to be frightened about what they say is dangerous. If we want less honest and bland interviews that is all this creates. The media is so guilty of this. They didn't balance out his humanitarian acts in the story...they just focused on a 6 or 7 word sentence he said. People don't always say the perfect thing....lets give people a little grace when they say the wrong thing vs. completely burying them.
Will be interesting to see if Bono has a response for his comments in the near future - he should be smart enough not to dig a bigger hole for himself.
I wonder if Larry is on board with the comments.
Any positive thing someone is really passionate about and committed to is OK by me.
On a different note, I like reading all the discussion here about the metal genre and the passionate community surrounding it. Metal isn't a genre I follow much-I like a few metal songs here and there, but it's not a genre I'm super familiar with. So it's neat to get an inside glimpse of what the subculture is like and whatnot . And mama cass, your daughter sounds like a kickass person. I wish her all the success with her music career.
This has been a very interesting discussion, and as I'm reading I'm thinking about this, which hasn't really been discussed.
Men and women are not exactly the same. Nor should they be, we were made differently.
Now I have three older children, two daughters and a son, so I've been in the thick of the masculinity/femininity discussions.
Usually, and I know everyone knows this, men have more testosterone, women more estrogen. In most physical endeavors, the strongest men will always beat the strongest women, what does that mean?
Not much really. Women can strive to achieve their dreams in any field just as well as men, and that should be celebrated and affirmed!
I want my girls to achieve as much of their dreams as much as my son, and I know they can and will!
"Girly" certainly can be a pejorative term, for sure. But so can "masculinity " or "toxic masculinity " be used as a perjorative, when there's nothing wrong with being masculine! I've known a few "toxic feminists" as well!
Be masculine, or be feminine, just don't be a jerk about it.
Yes, Bono could have, and probably should have said something different. But it's ok for men and women to not be exactly the same.
This has been a very interesting discussion, and as I'm reading I'm thinking about this, which hasn't really been discussed.
Men and women are not exactly the same. Nor should they be, we were made differently.
Now I have three older children, two daughters and a son, so I've been in the thick of the masculinity/femininity discussions.
Usually, and I know everyone knows this, men have more testosterone, women more estrogen. In most physical endeavors, the strongest men will always beat the strongest women, what does that mean?
Not much really. Women can strive to achieve their dreams in any field just as well as men, and that should be celebrated and affirmed!
I want my girls to achieve as much of their dreams as much as my son, and I know they can and will!
"Girly" certainly can be a pejorative term, for sure. But so can "masculinity " or "toxic masculinity " be used as a perjorative, when there's nothing wrong with being masculine! I've known a few "toxic feminists" as well!
Be masculine, or be feminine, just don't be a jerk about it.
Yes, Bono could have, and probably should have said something different. But it's ok for men and women to not be exactly the same.
Anyway, the more I think about the social media melt down over this (and among some on here), the more I think the worst over reactions are hypocritical, opportunistic bullshit. People who already don't like Bono are using this as an excuse to take a cheap shot at him. Bono, no matter what you think of him or how annoying you think he may be, has been a force for good in this world, including for women. U2’s lyrics have not a hint of misogyny as far as I know. Nor do they promote violence, and for the most part are pretty damn uplifting. As he's pointed out many times, U2 is run by women. Bono was raised by all accounts two brilliant, independent daughters. He married a successful, strong woman in her own right. Bono as far as I can see walks the walk on this issue.
And what I find to be incredibly hypocritical, frankly, is that some of the people in this thread who are loudest in their self-righteous condemnation of Bono, I’ve seen praise artists whose music has some of the most misogynistic, violent lyrics out there....and many of those same artists don't exactly lead stellar personal lives in this regard either. So yeah, when you start calling those guys out, regularly, maybe then I'll respect what you have to say about Bono.
I am glad that someone had the guts to point this out. Frankly, as woman, being dictated that some offhand, unobtrusive comment must be related to "coded sexist language" or the prior history of oppression is far more offensive to me than anything Bono said. Assuming that we should get worked up over a complete non-issue says a lot about some of the preconceptions posters here (including female ones) have about women. It is very, very disappointing.
As a woman, i get to decide how and when i’m offended. The girly comment didn’t move the needle, but the insecure feeling of “wait, should i be offended?” is a lot worse.
No, i shouldn’t be. And i’m not.
I am glad that someone had the guts to point this out. Frankly, as woman, being dictated that some offhand, unobtrusive comment must be related to "coded sexist language" or the prior history of oppression is far more offensive to me than anything Bono said. Assuming that we should get worked up over a complete non-issue says a lot about some of the preconceptions posters here (including female ones) have about women. It is very, very disappointing.
As a woman, I get to decide how and when I’m offended. The girly comment didn’t move the needle, but the insecure feeling of “wait, should I be offended?” is a lot worse.
No, I shouldn’t be. And I’m not.