Bono Interview in Rolling Stone

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Depends what you're looking for. If you mean young men expressing anger in toxic ways, then yes there are fewer avenues to do that than a few decades ago, and rightly so.

But for young men whose anger isn't that of a shithead? Hell no. Obviously hip hop is a huge outlet - and Bono's comment implying it's not really for young white dudes is very strange, given all the white dudes rapping or at hip hop shows.

Metal is, of course, thriving across the planet. And the genres birthed from punk are big, especially metalcore and its derivatives, but also hardcore and post-hardcore. Emo has experienced a big resurgence in recent years; maybe there's a stereotype that's for sad young guys but it's also a good scene to channel anger in a healthy way. And if you've got some real bleak social alienation you don't have to go far to find a noise scene, and the misogynistic or racist noise artists of old are increasingly being confined to a narrow corner.

Of course each genre has problems with meathead fuckwits. In my experience those are usually regional scenes rather than genre scenes (so that a death metal scene in one city might be pretty healthy, but in another will feel threatening if you're not one of the boys). But there's plenty of effort being made so that everybody feels able to express themselves and their emotions without pushing out others who just want to have fun with a bit of musical catharsis.

And, to be honest, a lot of the angry young dudes who two decades ago you'd have seen at nu-metal shows or wearing a Limp Bizkit shirt, they now seem to be thrashing around at EDM festivals in shitty singlets.

Can you provide data showing by what metrics metal is "thriving across the planet"? Because here in the US, all types of metal seem very confined to smaller and smaller subgroups and having less and less of impact on the general populace over the past 20 years. The charts appear to bear that out, which is really the point that Bono was making.

Metal is almost nowhere to be seen when in comes to top albums, top songs, and top tours in the US. Most metal musicians that I have seen are struggling to fill anything other than the smallest venues. The overall impact of metal in the US right now would appear to be negligible, and that's being kind.

Nice of you to take a big swing and miss at EDM as well.
 
And now is the time we back off the insult hurling, dredging up old political grievances, and in general making this thread about your issues with other posters.

Haywa, you seem unusually eager to cast your own judgments around at people who you claim to be outraged at for casting their judgment on others. You should take Iggy’s advice.

Thanks, that means a lot coming from an ultra-biased moderator who routinely attacks people who express any political viewpoint that differs from his own.
 
do you need data also to prove that grass is green?

No, anything will do. The people I have spoken to in the music industry, including musicians, have pretty much said the opposite, at least with respect to metal's impact in the US.
 
No, anything will do. The people I have spoken to in the music industry, including musicians, have pretty much said the opposite, at least with respect to metal's impact in the US.

lol

did you just do a snap survey with "people"? that's impressive :D
 
lol

did you just do a snap survey with "people"? that's impressive :D

I also mentioned objective criteria like the charts, and reviewing the lists of top tours by revenue. None of those support the notion that metal is "thriving" in the US. So I am asking for some actual evidence of the claim
 
Thanks, that means a lot coming from an ultra-biased moderator who routinely attacks people who express any political viewpoint that differs from his own.

:corn:

I’d say it was nice knowing you, but...

You are the most toxic new presence on this forum. As mentioned earlier you were getting in people’s faces a couple months ago for no reason, and now you’re spewing alt-right language everywhere.

I’m sure you’ll continue to scream about how you’re being persecuted by oversensitive “libtards” but you are the problem here.
 
I also mentioned objective criteria like the charts, and reviewing the lists of top tours by revenue. None of those support the notion that metal is "thriving" in the US. So I am asking for some actual evidence of the claim

charts really don't mean shit when it comes to good music...

you have to look at the local music scene, festivals, live venues etc. what's happening among young people, on the ground... and it is buzzing here...

for instance, Hellfest (the biggest metal festival in France, and i think the largest music festival in general here) sells out pretty much immediately, tickets being snapped up even before the line-up is released (although some would say it's turning into a bit of a dinosaur/nostalgia festival now, and not really cutting edge in metal these days)
 
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:corn:

I’d say it was nice knowing you, but...

You are the most toxic new presence on this forum. As mentioned earlier you were getting in people’s faces a couple months ago for no reason, and now you’re spewing alt-right language everywhere.

I’m sure you’ll continue to scream about how you’re being persecuted by oversensitive “libtards” but you are the problem here.

That's it - anyone who is not in lock-step with your brand of orthodoxy is "alt-right"
 
charts really don't mean shit when it comes to good music...

you have to look at the local music scene, festivals, live venues etc. what's happening among young people, on the ground... and it is buzzing here...

for instance, Hellfest (the biggest metal festival in France, and i think the largest music festival in general here) sells out pretty much immediately, tickets being snapped up even before the line-up is released (although some would say it's turning into a bit of a dinosaur/nostalgia festival now, and not really cutting edge in metal these days)

I don't think charts necessarily say anything about the quality of the music, either (e.g., look at how much hip-hop dominates the charts). However, they are a good metric of divining how much an impact certain music is having. When it comes to metal, it seems to be nonexistent.
 
I don't think charts necessarily say anything about the quality of the music, either (e.g., look at how much hip-hop dominates the charts). However, they are a good metric of divining how much an impact certain music is having. When it comes to metal, it seems to be nonexistent.

not really... metal (maybe apart from hair metal in the 80s) has pretty much always been underground, not in the mainstream... all the good stuff anyway
 
for instance, a really good French band called Gojira has recently broken into the US - they are gaining a huge international following - they are amazing... saw them once live, and Mario Duplantier their drummer is incredible - they're a great example of a fairly new metal band with a massive following - there are loads more out there

heh i see they're playing at Download in Oz next year - you Aussies should look out for them!
 
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:up:

my daughter's (and son's) current band is deathcore, and my son is also a drummer in a technical death metal band (with a label), and both also play metalcore, hardcore and punk (and also reggae) - they're a sibling rhythm section hehe

Nice! :up:

Can you provide data showing by what metrics metal is "thriving across the planet"? Because here in the US, all types of metal seem very confined to smaller and smaller subgroups and having less and less of impact on the general populace over the past 20 years. The charts appear to bear that out, which is really the point that Bono was making.

Metal is almost nowhere to be seen when in comes to top albums, top songs, and top tours in the US. Most metal musicians that I have seen are struggling to fill anything other than the smallest venues. The overall impact of metal in the US right now would appear to be negligible, and that's being kind.

Nice of you to take a big swing and miss at EDM as well.

Metal has almost never been a chart genre, so you can take your "metrics" elsewhere. Though if you want some empirical data, just check out how large metal festivals are. From your big ones like Hellfest and Wacken and Download, through to your more niche types like Roadburn, there's a massive market for it. Any metal fan will tell you that it's a global community in a way very few other genres have ever been, one that is less restricted by national or language boundaries.

But don't take my word for it, how about the WSJ?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-weird-global-appeal-of-heavy-metal-1455819419

Not to mention a prominent metal website's summary of, and response to, that article:

Metal's Internationalism Recognized by the Wall Street Journal - Metal Injection

And I didn't take a swipe at EDM, literally the only thing I ragged on are the singlets popular at the moment - and they really are shitty. Seen way too many side-moobs.
 
heh i see they're playing at Download in Oz next year - you Aussies should look out for them!

Saw them a few years ago. They've never been a big favourite of mine but their live show is good.

They played at the metal/punk festival Soundwave, which until very recently was the biggest festival in Australia. And it only went under because the promoter was a huge piece of shit who alienated too many suppliers for the festival to keep going. But yeah, now we've got Download coming in to fill the gap left. On the back of this first edition it will probably immediately be the biggest festival too, or very close.

The two big festival markets in Australia, really, are metal/punk and EDM.
 
Saw them a few years ago. They've never been a big favourite of mine but their live show is good.

They played at the metal/punk festival Soundwave, which until very recently was the biggest festival in Australia. And it only went under because the promoter was a huge piece of shit who alienated too many suppliers for the festival to keep going. But yeah, now we've got Download coming in to fill the gap left. On the back of this first edition it will probably immediately be the biggest festival too, or very close.

The two big festival markets in Australia, really, are metal/punk and EDM.

that's awesome! they are amazing live - when i saw them Mario managed to break a cymbal in half during a song and his tech had to change it real fast haha
they're a sentimental band for me as they remind me of my kids and i like to listen to them when i acutely miss them (now they've grown and left home - sad old mum haha) - a few years back, my daughter did a medley of their songs Born in Winter and Enfant Sauvage for part of her Conservatoire practical exam, when she was about 16 - apart from the set exam pieces, she could pick any piece of music and perform it in front of the jury - she played the Gojira guitar lines on her bass, and enlisted her brother on the drums - it was really funny - the two of them in the auditorium at the Conservatoire (mega classical school), son bashing out Gojira on the crappy tiny school kit with his double pedal, and daughter on her bass and little school amp (turned up to 11 haha), jury of classical musicians completely shell shocked, but they both nailed it and she got a distinction lmfao - wish we'd caught it on film!

it's the same here re. festivals - we have Download and Hellfest, plus loads of smaller and medium sized metal festivals too, and there's also the rave/trance festivals as well - definitely the biggest markets here too... plus lots of metal gigs on the local bar scene - awesome for live music here...
 
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Thanks, that means a lot coming from an ultra-biased moderator who routinely attacks people who express any political viewpoint that differs from his own.



:lol:

If, by viewpoints that differ from my own, you mean people who post racist, sexist, white supremacist views, then yes, I PROUDLY stand against them, and make no bones about the fact that racism, white supremacy and sexism are not welcome here. If that’s an issue for you, then tough shit. I’m not here to coddle those who want to normalize racism, sexism and white supremacy, and if you have an issue with it, then frankly, it makes me question your moral character.

And finally, publicly attacking a moderator, regardless of your or their political leanings, is a sure fire ticket out of here, and given your attitude, I’m happy to say: good riddance.
 
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Bono said an inelegant, incorrect thing in a sprawling, comprehensive interview. He’ll be called out for it, and should be, and will clarify, and should. We all seem to understand what he meant while at the same time able to identify what and why his words were poorly chosen.

Next.

What irritates me, aside from sexist bias encoded in language, is the joy some get from kicking someone who has always been one of the good guys. Always. Good guys are imperfect, and often fall short. Help them be better, because you’re imperfect too.
 
So are we expecting a response from Bono? Like many others, I thought his remark was a bit sexist and narrow-minded, but when taken as a whole with all of his campaigning and humanitarian causes, it's clear (to me, anyway) that the guy means well. An ignorant comment is more forgivable (again, for me, anyway ;p) if the speaker makes a good-faith effort to understand and address (and, hopefully, rectify) the criticisms of that statement.
 
This made the news in MN on a local station. Labeling Bono a sexist. There are people that will walk away from that story assuming he is a sexist which is a shame. His statement was poor and I'm sure he would reword if he had the chance. I'm not excusing him for not thinking that through a bit more. But the media's aggressive attack on people who say the wrong thing is completely out of line. It is all about ratings. Creating a world where people need to be frightened about what they say is dangerous. If we want less honest and bland interviews that is all this creates. The media is so guilty of this. They didn't balance out his humanitarian acts in the story...they just focused on a 6 or 7 word sentence he said. People don't always say the perfect thing....lets give people a little grace when they say the wrong thing vs. completely burying them.
 
So are we expecting a response from Bono? Like many others, I thought his remark was a bit sexist and narrow-minded, but when taken as a whole with all of his campaigning and humanitarian causes, it's clear (to me, anyway) that the guy means well. An ignorant comment is more forgivable (again, for me, anyway ;p) if the speaker makes a good-faith effort to understand and address (and, hopefully, rectify) the criticisms of that statement.

I'm not sure how ignorant it is. Fair enough to place it in the context of what Bono has done over the years, especially the JT30 encores with their core theme of women's achievements, but it's not a one-off isolated comment. Bono has always used "girly" or "sounding like a girl" pejoratively. This is no slip of the tongue.
 
This made the news in MN on a local station. Labeling Bono a sexist. There are people that will walk away from that story assuming he is a sexist which is a shame. ..... The media is so guilty of this. They didn't balance out his humanitarian acts in the story...they just focused on a 6 or 7 word sentence he said. People don't always say the perfect thing....lets give people a little grace when they say the wrong thing vs. completely burying them.

On the plus side, he only said music was girly, and didn't say "Man, I love bitches with big boobs."

Most reasonable people are not going to even blink at this. Others who will take this as anti-Bono fodder probably already hate him anyway.

Totally agree with your last sentence and the comments about media.

Also on the plus side, maybe he'll stop saying things are "girly" now.
 
I think people here are over reacting to the comment - I have heard many UK/Irish/Scottish males use the term "girly" in the past, whether that would pass as politically correct in today's world is obviously a different story. If that's the most controversial thing he has to say I think hes alright.
 
Men from those countries also apparently say "cunt" like they're saying "hello," so people aren't really going to embrace that as an exuse.
 
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I think people have elaborated on what he meant and a better way to have said it elsewhere in the thread.

Whether his point is even valid or not seems to be a whole 'nother can of worms, though. ;)
 
An argument could be made either way - "angry" rock music on the radio, and pop charts is dead at the moment, that probably has more to do with the record labels then anything else. There is certainly a desire for it but it doesn't get played like before.

Hip Hop has now surpassed rock as the most played genre in the US as of this year and I think that's where some people get their angry music from, at least if you are listening to what is considered popular.

"The last of the rock stars when hip hop drove the big cars" - is no more true then in today's music market.
 
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