Bono Interview in Rolling Stone

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#1 'Hot' 100 song right now is:

<insert clip of Perfect by Ed Sheeran here>

I think think Bono could have been more specific or choice of better words, but I think this is kind of what he met. Right now Rock n Roll is dead in the mainstream. Evidence is above...

I'm going to critique this a bit, though I do understand where your sentiment is coming from. I'm not an Ed Sheeran fan at all, but I do like some things about Perfect (though it has flaws). Why? Because it's a victory of the attitude that men can be emotional. This is a hard-fought battle against gender stereotypes, against a destructive attitude that men have to bottle up their emotions and not show it.

So, I'm thankful to an extent to artists who have contributed against the men-can't-be-emotional stereotype. Coldplay are a contributor here. Yes, Perfect by Ed Sheeran is a contributor here. And, funnily enough, I'd argue that U2 have been as well (see: all of Achtung Baby).

Perhaps there's a good argument to be made that culture at large has a hard time accepting aggression in music nowadays, and that may be destructive. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I'm sure one could at least construct a reasonable argument around it. The answer to that, however, is more inclusiveness towards all reasonable means of expression, not an attack on the softer, more emotional music - that U2 have been a part of driving in the first place.

Associated with all of this is that women should feel they have a place to contribute to music all across the spectrum - from aggressive to sappy and emotional - without being judged simply for contributing to that place. (Quality of music, of course, is fair game.) And unnecessary usage of gendered words like "girly" is truly counterproductive here.
 
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I think the reference to "girly music" -- in context -- refers to a type of music, as stated. Not an indictment of female solo artists or bands in general.
 
#1 'Hot' 100 song right now is:







I think think Bono could have been more specific or choice of better words, but I think this is kind of what he met. Right now Rock n Roll is dead in the mainstream. Evidence is above...

What a girly song
 
I’m personally not offended by the girly comment. I definitely think he should have chosen his word better, but I would have likely never noticed that had it not been beaten to death here.

Digitize makes some good points, though. Mainstream music has become more emotional, more feminine. Some people like that. Some don’t. Those who prefer a tougher edge to their music have to dig deeper to find it. The Sheerans/Swifts/Sam Smith are all the rage, and edgier, harder music is out there, but more difficult to find.

“Girly” was simply meant as softer, more emotional. Bad choice of words.

Though, it would be cool if in a couple of years some awesome female band pulled a Popmart Leeds move, giving the finger to Bono instead of Harrison. “Bono says we make Girly music! Bono, this is for you!” And then proceed to tear the fans’ faces off.
 
oh for heaven's sake - so many of you on this board are hysterical in the non-funny sense of that word. and it is tone-deaf, not time-deaf but I'll assume that's your auto-correct.

read the paragraph again, in context, with the overall question about the state of rock music today. girly doesn't refer to girls making rock music (ffs) it refers to rock music that is no longer guitar driven and powerful in its expression of young idealistic anger, or frustration, or passion on issues. Current rock music is girly compared to The Who, or Pearl Jam's 'Ten' or Rage Against The Machine or, yes, even Patti Smith. Bono thinks he hears that sort of passion in hip hop, but not in rock and is therefore looking for the next rock revolution. He most certainly isn't saying girl bands suck.

as for the shit-show you predict .. what? you mean on Twitter? spare me.

It's hard for me to even describe how funny it is to see people get worked up over this. This is a perfect example of how PC idiocy has infected the brains of so many people. Those of you complaining and whining are a bunch of fucking hypocrites. Did Bono mean to offend with his comments or choice of words? No, clearly not. SO MOVE THE FUCK ON.
 
I can’t believe the “girly” comment even made any news. Is that how sensitive our society is today?

I mean, it could have been much worse. Shit like this makes me glad I’m not famous. I consider myself a kind person but I tend to be a bit loose lipped. I’d be crucified.

Yes, society is that sensitive today, sadly. Over-sensitivity and outrage culture make a LOT of money for many media outlets, and it basically winds up infecting the people who read it and live it constantly. I'm just surprised about how much it has infected people in this forum.
 
This is honestly a very disappointing comment in an interview that also has a lot of good stuff in it. I get that he didn't mean any harm, and I highly doubt that Bono really has issues women making music or whatever the worst-case-scenario meaning of the comment could be. At the same time, the language is the sort of casual sexism that bothers me when others participate, and so I feel obligated to not just excuse it away because it's from my celebrity hero who is otherwise generally a good feminist.

I do particularly appreciate Bono's balanced comments on the writings of Paul and David - which, funnily enough, include a jab at Paul's attitude towards women.

If you "get it" that he didn't mean any harm, then you shouldn't really need to say anything else about it. Let it go. This wasn't an example of sexism, "casual" or otherwise, and you know it. You KNOW he didn't intend it to be sexist. You KNOW he doesn't think any less of women as compared to men. You know all this, yet you STILL feel compelled to take him to task for it. Unbelievable.
 
It doesn't matter what Bono intended. It's reinforcing a stereotype, and using "girly" as a pejorative.

What's so hard to understand about that?

And again, if you're not a woman, please abstain from telling people not to get so worked up. That's not your call.

The fact that so many people here don't see what's wrong with the choice of words is proof of how far we need to go in terms of understanding systematic inequality and why women are made to feel inadequate in various cultures and societies, or that the variety of their perspectives and means of expression is often curtailed, questioned, and belittled.
 
It doesn't matter what Bono intended. It's reinforcing a stereotype, and using "girly" as a pejorative.

What's so hard to understand about that?

And again, if you're not a woman, please abstain from telling people not to get so worked up. That's not your call.

The fact that so many people here don't see what's wrong with the choice of words is proof of how far we need to go in terms of understanding systematic inequality and why women are made to feel inadequate in various cultures and societies, or that the variety of their perspectives and means of expression is often curtailed, questioned, and belittled.

Connecting Bono's quote with "systematic inequality" is speculative, juvenile and stupid. And yes, when a response to a single word is unreasonable and detached from reality, it IS anyone's right to tell people they are overreacting and being oversensitive.

It's like you are reading from a script prepared by a leftist college professor. Try to start thinking for yourself instead of memorizing the buzzwords and phrases you've been taught
 
How many more posts before you call me a cuck and accuse me of virtue signaling?

I don't know how it's a stretch that so many girls and women have been told directly or indirectly over their lives that they can't do certain things. Or that women and girls are somehow inherently weak. That's what using the term "girly" in that way reinforces. But hey, I'm glad YOU'RE ok with it.


Vice just picked this one up, so it's not going away. They have over 7 million followers on FB that might be seeing this article in their feed as I just did.

https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/43q37n/big-dumb-bono-says-that-music-has-become-very-girly
 
How many more posts before you call me a cuck and accuse me of virtue signaling?

I don't know how it's a stretch that so many girls and women have been told directly or indirectly over their lives that they can't do certain things. Or that women and girls are somehow inherently weak. That's what using the term "girly" in that way reinforces. But hey, I'm glad YOU'RE ok with it.


Vice just picked this one up, so it's not going away. They have over 7 million followers on FB that might be seeing this article in their feed as I just did.

https://noisey.vice.com/en_us/article/43q37n/big-dumb-bono-says-that-music-has-become-very-girly

Of course it's not going away. People like you, who rely on subjective responses to words as opposed to rationality and objective analysis, won't let it go away. Bono's use of the word only reinforces things in your own mind. That says a LOT more about you and your own prejudices than it does about him, or Western society.
 
My own perspective - which I realize means nothing to no one - is that the "girly" comment stuck me as a bit odd when I read it. Not because it was offensive to me in any way nor did I feel that it was meant in any way to be offensive, it just seemed odd because I already know the hyper sensitive culture we live in where people are offended so easily. It wasn't the world I grew up in, and Bono is a good 10 years older than me, so it wasn't the world he grew up in either. Oh well. If that is the one comment that people take from an otherwise decent interview and it blows up, okay, oh well, etc. At least the people will be talking....I guess?

Moving on, the "health scare" thing for Bono came up quite a bit, even though he refuses to talk about what it was or is. I wonder if it's a good idea to even have mentioned it if you are not going to talk about? I mean, on one hand, it's a rather personal thing for him that he does not have to talk about to anyone ever, nor should he. On the other hand, he won't shut up about it, he tells everyone apparently about his "near death experience", even sings about it, and then when people ask him what it was, he basically tells them rather politely it's nobody's business. Am I the only one who finds this odd?

That said, I think the music is better for it, and I do wish they would have talked more about the music and less about other annoying subjects (America is an idea, etc.). Not one mention (that i recall) of the greatest song they have recorded since the 90's...'the little things that give you away'? That should have people up in arms if you ask me. But you didn't, I suppose.

I did really like the part about the Psalms of David too, very cool stuff, which might be uncool of me to mention, not that I care of course.

I too love when Bono talks about the Psalms! But he seems to pick and choose when talking about the Letters of Paul, which is also Scripture, which I found, should I say, interesting??
 
Shockingly, the usual suspects who believe they know everything and only process new information through that lens are having a tough time responding to this properly.

It's a stupid thing to say. I think the most charitable interpretation is that he's mixing up a few different concepts in one incoherent response (his whole hip hop is about fathers, rock is about mothers thing, combined with his dislike of some modern rock, combined with his whole "I sing girly like Joey Ramone" thing), but it's a shite thing to say, and it's also shite journalism for him not to get pressed further on that statement.
 
Shockingly, the usual suspects who believe they know everything and only process new information through that lens are having a tough time responding to this properly.

It's a stupid thing to say. I think the most charitable interpretation is that he's mixing up a few different concepts in one incoherent response (his whole hip hop is about fathers, rock is about mothers thing, combined with his dislike of some modern rock, combined with his whole "I sing girly like Joey Ramone" thing), but it's a shite thing to say, and it's also shite journalism for him not to get pressed further on that statement.

I sure hope you don't live in a glass house.
 
It doesn't matter what Bono intended. It's reinforcing a stereotype, and using "girly" as a pejorative.

What's so hard to understand about that?

And again, if you're not a woman, please abstain from telling people not to get so worked up. That's not your call.

The fact that so many people here don't see what's wrong with the choice of words is proof of how far we need to go in terms of understanding systematic inequality and why women are made to feel inadequate in various cultures and societies, or that the variety of their perspectives and means of expression is often curtailed, questioned, and belittled.

:up:

yep, plus the music industry can be incredibly difficult for women... my daughter is a really bad-ass metal bassist, has spent the past few years being the only girl in her two bands, she has really had to fight to prove herself and hold her own, and has lost count of the amount of times she's turned up to soundcheck for the sound engineers to assume she's the singer (cos she's beautiful and a girl, and god forbid she should play a "boy's instrument"), oh and they always try to turn her bass down whereas her special sound is LOUD AND DIRTY! practically every rock/metal event she's played at, she has been the ONLY GIRL out of all the bands there, apart from one time where there was a female drummer in another metal band, and latest comment, by a bassist from another band, that she's "a really good bassist FOR A GIRL" :rolleyes:

thank f*ck she is in a band right now that reaaaally appreciates her and acknowledges how difficult it is to be a girl in the macho rock/metal sector, and they LOVE having a girl bassist, and think it's actually pretty cool and pretty fucking contemporary and bad-ass - i am so fucking proud of her for not giving up and really going for it... also, she does not flaunt herself like some cliched "metal chicks" do - the culture in rock/metal can be horrible re. females, but she just focuses on making great cutting edge music (she plays her bass like a guitar, 4-string, 5-string, and sometimes 6-string bass as well, and has now just started teaching herself double bass for the hell of it) and is happy and comfortable in her jeans and baggy tees, it's the music that counts and she is GOOD - i am a really fucking proud mum, so it irks me personally to hear the perjorative girlie comment, when my girl is busting her ass to tear down the stereotypes in music and faces all kinds of macho prejudices in her day to day (thankfully only from the assholes though - most of the lads are lovely :heart: - but it only takes one asshole to spoil your day)
 
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:up:

yep, plus the music industry can be incredibly difficult for women... my daughter is a really bad-ass metal bassist, has spent the past few years being the only girl in her two bands, she has really had to fight to prove herself and hold her own, and has lost count of the amount of times she's turned up to soundcheck for the sound engineers to assume she's the singer (cos she's beautiful and a girl, and god forbid she should play a "boy's instrument"), oh and they always try to turn her bass down whereas her special sound is LOUD AND DIRTY! practically every rock/metal event she's played at, she has been the ONLY GIRL out of all the bands there, apart from one time where there was a female drummer in another metal band, and latest comment, by a bassist from another band, that she's "a really good bassist FOR A GIRL" :rolleyes:

thank f*ck she is in a band right now that reaaaally appreciates her and acknowledges how difficult it is to be a girl in the macho rock/metal sector, and they LOVE having a girl bassist, and think it's actually pretty cool and pretty fucking contemporary and bad-ass - i am so fucking proud of her for not giving up and really going for it... also, she does not flaunt herself like some cliched "metal chicks" do - the culture in rock/metal can be horrible re. females, but she just focuses on making great cutting edge music (she plays her bass like a guitar, 4-string, 5-string, and sometimes 6-string bass as well, and has now just started teaching herself double bass for the hell of it) and is happy and comfortable in her jeans and baggy tees, it's the music that counts and she is GOOD - i am a really fucking proud mum, so it irks me personally to hear the perjorative girlie comment, when my girl is busting her ass to tear down the stereotypes in music and faces all kinds of macho prejudices in her day to day (thankfully only from the assholes though - most of the lads are lovely :heart: - but it only takes one asshole to spoil your day)

Thank heavens for daughters such as yours. More power to her! :up:
 
It's hardly the first time Bono has said something like this...I believe he once commented that the songs on SOI weren't "masculine" enough (or something like that).

Anyway, he's inoculated from criticism because he was after all the Glamour Magazine Woman of the Year. So as a woman he's perfectly entitled to use 'girly' in whichever context he wishes. For those men who are criticising him over this...your privilege is showing.
 
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:up:

yep, plus the music industry can be incredibly difficult for women... my daughter is a really bad-ass metal bassist, has spent the past few years being the only girl in her two bands, she has really had to fight to prove herself and hold her own, and has lost count of the amount of times she's turned up to soundcheck for the sound engineers to assume she's the singer (cos she's beautiful and a girl, and god forbid she should play a "boy's instrument"), oh and they always try to turn her bass down whereas her special sound is LOUD AND DIRTY! practically every rock/metal event she's played at, she has been the ONLY GIRL out of all the bands there, apart from one time where there was a female drummer in another metal band, and latest comment, by a bassist from another band, that she's "a really good bassist FOR A GIRL" :rolleyes:

thank f*ck she is in a band right now that reaaaally appreciates her and acknowledges how difficult it is to be a girl in the macho rock/metal sector, and they LOVE having a girl bassist, and think it's actually pretty cool and pretty fucking contemporary and bad-ass - i am so fucking proud of her for not giving up and really going for it... also, she does not flaunt herself like some cliched "metal chicks" do - the culture in rock/metal can be horrible re. females, but she just focuses on making great cutting edge music (she plays her bass like a guitar, 4-string, 5-string, and sometimes 6-string bass as well, and has now just started teaching herself double bass for the hell of it) and is happy and comfortable in her jeans and baggy tees, it's the music that counts and she is GOOD - i am a really fucking proud mum, so it irks me personally to hear the perjorative girlie comment, when my girl is busting her ass to tear down the stereotypes in music and faces all kinds of macho prejudices in her day to day (thankfully only from the assholes though - most of the lads are lovely :heart: - but it only takes one asshole to spoil your day)

That's great to hear.

(...waits for Haywa's response...)
 
Prediction: Given the (predictable) social media meltdown over this comment, Bono will respond. And when he responds he'll remind the world, again, that women run U2's business. This response works in part because it has the virtue of being true. And yes, of course he'll apologise.

Once that happens, if U2 is lucky someone else will say something stupid to distract the social media mob's attention for the moment and the communal freakout will be directed elsewhere.

Then hopefully someone will remember that Trump is still President, North Korea still has nuclear missiles and the world has other, real things to worry about.
 
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I sure hope you don't live in a glass house.
I've said regrettable things in my life, but I think anyone who has known me for a while would tell you that I make a concerted effort to learn and put new information to good use. I'm certainly a different person today than I was when I first joined this forum.

I can't say the same for some of the people in this thread.
 
Then hopefully someone will remember that Trump is still President, North Korea still has nuclear missiles and the world has other, real things to worry about.
This is fucking silly. We can worry about more than one thing at once, and the media has a great deal of influence in setting and defining cultural norms. I'm not saying Bono needs to be put on a cross; I am saying it would be a good outcome if he has to reckon with this statement and admit he was wrong.

Trump is going to be president for some time. The only thing worse than what he is doing would be if everyone stopped doing anything else and just fussed on about him.
 
This is fucking silly. We can worry about more than one thing at once, and the media has a great deal of influence in setting and defining cultural norms. I'm not saying Bono needs to be put on a cross; I am saying it would be a good outcome if he has to reckon with this statement and admit he was wrong.

Well I suppose we can worry about all the things we wish. But why should I add something stupid like this to my list?

Anyway, don't worry, you'll get your wish. He'll be made to apologise, as I said the social media mob will see to that. If nothing else, it's a blunt instrument. And he'll do it in brilliant, self-effacing Bono fashion that will be suitably charming. Then we can all move on to the next outrage.

BTW, I'm surprised this RS interview got so much traction, given he also used the "girly' thing several times, I think, during the Stern interview. Where was the outrage around here then? All I remember is reading about how brill the Stern interview was. He's also said stuff like "hit like a girl" or "fight like a girl" many times throughout the years. None of this is anything new. Which frankly all of you should know.
 
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Well I suppose we can worry about all the things we wish. But why should I add something stupid like this to my list?

Anyway, don't worry, you'll get your wish. He'll be made to apologise, as I said the social media mob will see to that. If nothing else, it's a blunt instrument. And he'll do it in brilliant, self-effacing Bono fashion that will be suitably charming. Then we can all move on to the next outrage.

BTW, I'm surprised this RS interview got so much traction, given he also used the "girly' thing several times, I think, during the Stern interview. He's also said stuff like "hit like a girl" many times throughout the year. None of this is anything new. Which frankly all of you should know.

Social media on this sort ruins brain cells, as evidenced by some of the truly hypocritical posters attacking Bono over this complete non-issue.

The people on this forum going after Bono are themselves engaging the issue in a very sexist manner. You can't say that you believe in "strong women" when you infantilize them and treat them like little children to be coddled. They can take an offhand, poorly-chosen word where the person saying meant no offense and has been very clear about true equality during his lifetime. It is sad and, frankly, sexist, that several here are taking such a hysterical position, because THEY are devaluing women by doing so, not Bono.
 
You know what really grinds my gears? That when people speak up to say "You know, that's not okay to say that," we get called "sensitive" and "offended."

Fuck that noise.

Like "snowflake," the word "offended" has lost all meaning. I'm not offended, I'm not sensitive, I'm just speaking the fuck up.

Frankly, I'm more worked up about that than I am about Bono saying "girly."
 
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