"Bono calls for control over internet downloads"

[Jimmy Jazz]

I'm surprised to not see any discussion about this article. I'd imagine that if Paul McGuinness said this, everyone would be complaining about about what an out of touch, money grubbing monster he is.

Bono calls for control over Internet downloads

Irish rock star Bono called Sunday for tougher controls over the spread of intellectual property over the Internet, arguing that file swiping and sharing hurt creators of cultural products.

"The only thing protecting the movie and TV industries from the fate that has befallen music and indeed the newspaper business is the size of the files," the lead singer of the band U2 wrote in an op-ed piece in The New York Times.

He pointed out that "the immutable laws of bandwidth" indicate that technology is just a few years from allowing viewers to download entire movies in just a few seconds.

"A decade's worth of music file-sharing and swiping has made clear that the people it hurts are the creators -- in this case, the young, fledgling songwriters who can?t live off ticket and T-shirt sales like the least sympathetic among us," Bono noted.

The singer pointed out that the US effort to stop child pornography and China's effort to suppress online dissent indicate that it is "perfectly possible to track" Internet content.

"Perhaps movie moguls will succeed where musicians and their moguls have failed so far, and rally America to defend the most creative economy in the world, where music, film, TV and video games help to account for nearly four percent of gross domestic product," Bono said.

Good lord Bono, did you really just use China's internet censorship as a positive example of the point you're trying to make?

 

[BVS]

Good lord Bono, did you really just use China's internet censorship as a positive example of the point you're trying to make?

Wow, you really missed his point didn't you?

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

As far as I can tell his point is exactly what the title is. And to prove that this is possible, he points to China's government controlling what people can look at on the internet. He's not really going to get anyone on his side with that example.

 

[Joey788]

I have to say that I also disagree with Bono's stance. While file sharing can really be a problem for new, upcoming artists, it's really the record labels who are fighting the battle over lost profits. The labels are the people who want ISP to control Internet downloads. This is too much of a slippery slope that can lead to restrictions based strictly on greed, such as shutting down parody websites or other non-profit uses of music.

It goes without saying that something does need to be done about file-sharing. But what Bono and McGuinness are calling for feels more like a desperate attempt by the record labels to preserve their old and dying business model rather than coming up with a new model to fit the current climate.

Plus, no matter how sincere Bono's intentions are or how much he says that it's not about U2's lost profits, the press and public will see it as U2 complaining about the problem for their own sakes. It'll be nearly impossible for the band to come out on top here.

 

[Fernando-]

It goes without saying that something does need to be done about file-sharing. But what Bono and McGuinness are calling for feels more like a desperate attempt by the record labels to preserve their old and dying business model rather than coming up with a new model to fit the current climate.

Plus, no matter how sincere Bono's intentions are or how much he says that it's not about U2's lost profits, the press and public will see it as U2 complaining about the problem for their own sakes. It'll be nearly impossible for the band to come out on top here.

Yeah, I totally agree.

Besides, the thing they say that it's not about U2's sales, it's about new bands... I think that's kinda BS, I mean, for new bands, the Internet is the best way to be heard by people from all over the world, they're not really getting affected by online downloads because artists really don't make fortunes out of discs sales.

The one's that are really suffering the consequences are the record companies and big artists (Like U2) that have sweet deals with their RC's because of their high sales.

And all of this coming from a person who still buys CD's. I'm not saying I bought every single album I have on my mp3 library but I do buy the ones I consider worth paying for, so I can have them in the best possible quality.

 

[VintagePunk]

He also says this in the full text of that portion of the NY Times op-ed piece:

Note to self: Don’t get over-rewarded rock stars on this bully pulpit, or famous actors; find the next Cole Porter, if he/she hasn’t already left to write jingles.

He has a point.

Op-Ed Guest Columnist - Ten for the Next Ten - NYTimes.com

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

I found Bono's actual quote:

We’re the post office, they tell us; who knows what’s in the brown-paper packages? But we know from America’s noble effort to stop child pornography, not to mention China’s ignoble effort to suppress online dissent, that it’s perfectly possible to track content. Perhaps movie moguls will succeed where musicians and their moguls have failed so far, and rally America to defend the most creative economy in the world, where music, film, TV and video games help to account for nearly 4 percent of gross domestic product.

So I still don't agree with him but at least he said "China's ignoble effort." That's what bothered me most about this particular article is that they made it sound as if Bono would acknowledge China's internet censorship as if it wasn't a bad thing.

 

[Saracene]

Yeah, I totally agree.

Besides, the thing they say that it's not about U2's sales, it's about new bands... I think that's kinda BS, I mean, for new bands, the Internet is the best way to be heard by people from all over the world

Well you can certainly put your music on the net, but getting people to actually discover it is a bit more difficult, especially when thousands of other bands are doing the same thing. I've read an article a while ago on this topic which listed ten best ways for a new artist/band to noticed, and I think only two of them had anything to do with internet.

 

[Fernando-]

^^ I guess 2 is enough.

 

[65980]

It's far too early to come to any conclusive opinion about the downloading/file-sharing phenomenon (indeed, it's also too early to come to any final opinion about the effects of digital information & computers, since they've only been popular for 25 years).

One thing about the spread of computer-geeks, the Internet, and file sharing --- they have collectively shown that, in the digital-info era, bottom-up movements (starting from the people) are going to be more powerful than top-down initiatives of governments. This underscores how governments are completely incapable of meeting the world's environmental needs, as if the Copenhagen farce was needed to drive that point home.

At some point, I have to assume that governments will find a way to charge people for digital forms of entertainment, but in the meantime I doubt it hurts the small artists much. I disagree with Bono here. Smaller, independently-signed artists who have no top 100 singles, no appearances on television, and no radio play are not really worried about people downloading their music. They make their money from live appearances.

I was initially hopeful -- about 6 or 7 years ago -- that the downloading revolution would...er, revolutionize live performance, by putting the onus back on the ability to perform live, since that domain is the one aspect of major-label music that cannot be downloaded. However, the continued proliferation of 'American Idol' type pseudo-music vile trash has proven me wrong (so far).

I predict that at some point soon, a new phenomenon will emerge of local artists, who travel no further than their own counties, performing live and only performing live. The very idea of making records and promoting them will become associated only with the corporate world and will be discredited by college/indie-rock fans. The "cool" groups of the future will play live and make no records.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across all William S. Burroughs on your asses.

 

[powerhour24]

Plus, no matter how sincere Bono's intentions are or how much he says that it's not about U2's lost profits, the press and public will see it as U2 complaining about the problem for their own sakes. It'll be nearly impossible for the band to come out on top here.

Unfortunately agreed.

 

[last unicorn]

I'm surprised to not see any discussion about this article. I'd imagine that if Paul McGuinness said this, everyone would be complaining about about what an out of touch, money grubbing monster he is.

Bono calls for control over Internet downloads



Good lord Bono, did you really just use China's internet censorship as a positive example of the point you're trying to make?

I found Bono's actual quote:



So I still don't agree with him but at least he said "China's ignoble effort." That's what bothered me most about this particular article is that they made it sound as if Bono would acknowledge China's internet censorship as if it wasn't a bad thing.

There you go.

How about at least trying to read Bono's ORIGINAL remarks first before you make a judgement?

We may or may not agree on what he (or Paul McGuiness) have to say on this subject, but we should know by now that the media likes to take quotes out of context to make the original writer look bad, and they especially like to do that with Bono, so please don't follow their example.

Bono clearly pointed out China's methods of censoring internet content as a negative example. It would be helpful to actually read HIS article before reading the inevitable media bashing that comes every time after Bono releases something for the media.

He made his point on this issue long ago and has since than stood behind it, whether you agree with it or not. I don't agree with everything Bono is doing and when I read that particular passage I simply KNEW it would get him some bashing again, I'm sure he's up for it.

There is some other interesting stuff in it. Anton Zeilinger is basically a collegue of mine, we both work for the Austrian Academy of Sciences Not that it matters much, I just found that point really funny.

Apart from that, the article is rather pointless, but hey, not everything that B writes has to contain the weight of world affairs I guess.

I liked his piece on Berlin best.

 

[phommel]

I have to say that I also disagree with Bono's stance. While file sharing can really be a problem for new, upcoming artists, it's really the record labels who are fighting the battle over lost profits. The labels are the people who want ISP to control Internet downloads. This is too much of a slippery slope that can lead to restrictions based strictly on greed, such as shutting down parody websites or other non-profit uses of music.

It goes without saying that something does need to be done about file-sharing. But what Bono and McGuinness are calling for feels more like a desperate attempt by the record labels to preserve their old and dying business model rather than coming up with a new model to fit the current climate.

Plus, no matter how sincere Bono's intentions are or how much he says that it's not about U2's lost profits, the press and public will see it as U2 complaining about the problem for their own sakes. It'll be nearly impossible for the band to come out on top here.

I completely agree with you!
He shouldn't have said all this. He is becoming a second Lars Ullrich

 

[Marien]

I can't believe my eyes, Bono wants to be paid for his job, how he dares... greedy bastard!! He should be happy just knowing that his music is listened by people, who is he to defy the present status quo, if I want some music I take it, it is my right, why should I pay for something I can have for free? and of course I pay, I've bought my wideband connection, that is not free, so I can get all the contents I want at once, in my case I pay about 30 Euros a month, which makes about 360 Euros a year, I don't think I ever spent 360 Euros in music in the past, but I can also enter really entertaining pages and forums like this and well, I'm used now to get all kind of music, even that I would never get if it weren't free, I'm so generous with my time I give them an opportunity and I think I couldn't now restrict it to the music I really enjoy, you know. I want all! so I can compare, well I have to admit I'm also delighted when I have some music my friends don't, but that's a little side effect. I know what happens, it's not only Bono, it is those greedy music corporations that want their companies to survive, they have employees, well we are in a crisis, they should have forseen this and ask for new jobs, some of them could surely find something in the internet companies, some can build file-sharing sites and live on the advertisements, but no, they just want to keep their piece of the cake instead of figuring up a new form for the music bussiness. I agree with those who think that we are at the awakening of a new model based on local artists who will build their reputation mouth to mouth and will perform locally to smaller audiences (maybe in the streets, 50 - 60 people will be enough even if we are talking about a large pedestrian street) with a new kind of exchange for their art where the audience can give the artist what they find fair for their performance or nothing if they don't feel like it. I don't really believe that the quality of the music will get down, I don't think a home recorded song with domestic technology will be that different from the ones recorded in a studio with proffessional means and engineers, I doubt artists are really that artistic when they need so many things and people to produce an album, and finally I don't believe it is the young bands who will be worst hit, young people always have their parents!!!

My conclusion is that Bono, MacGuinness and the record labels are all greedy bastards who just want to get money from their work and restrict my right of getting whatever I want for free, of course I'm not a greedy bastard who just want to take everything I can without paying to the people who create it, if I were, I would have to admit that either I am a thief or that I'm in favour of slavery and it doesn't sound politically correct nowadays, so much better I'll bitch with the China example and I'll turn the attention of the people to a different issue.

 

[65980]

Marien, that was entertaining --- slightly over-cooked, but tasty.

 

[indra]

I predict that at some point soon, a new phenomenon will emerge of local artists, who travel no further than their own counties, performing live and only performing live. The very idea of making records and promoting them will become associated only with the corporate world and will be discredited by college/indie-rock fans. The "cool" groups of the future will play live and make no records.

Ewww...that would suck major donkey balls.

Unless they were all bands I'd hate anyway. Then it would be wonderful.

 

[Peterrrrr]

I wounder why there arent almost any records stores anymore in Sweden?

 

[last unicorn]

Most people I know, including me, still buy music.

Well I guess it's because we're not part of the "college and indie music fan" community.

I understand Bono is talking about the younger generation of artists here, but it's also understandable media and music fans jump on him because it seems he's complaining about himself and his band. Maybe the argument wouldn't be so controversial if Paul McGuiness hadn't gone around running his mouth about this issue at ever occasion in recent years.

 

[The Sad Punk]

Most people I know, including me, still buy music.

Well I guess it's because we're not part of the "college and indie music fan" community.

Yes, heaven's above, those rowdy whippersnappers! Indie, schmindie! Where do they get off on talken about this college?

 

[An Cat Gav]

I wounder why there arent almost any records stores anymore in Sweden?

Not just Sweden, I was recently in Norway, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Finland, I found one record store in each. Even in London it's not as easy as it was, it's only really HMV that sell CDs here, and then you have to get past all the ipod and playstation games to find any music.

 

[indra]

I wounder why there arent almost any records stores anymore in Sweden?

Not just Sweden, I was recently in Norway, the Czech Republic, Slovakia and Finland, I found one record store in each. Even in London it's not as easy as it was, it's only really HMV that sell CDs here, and then you have to get past all the ipod and playstation games to find any music.

Probably because most people who do buy cds shop online (like me ). I can sit on my ass in front of my computer and buy just about any album by any artist from anywhere in the world. No store offers that kind of selection, and once you get used to having everything at your fingertips it's tough to go back to the limited selection of even GREAT record/cd shops.

 

[JoRu]

I wounder why there arent almost any records stores anymore in Sweden?

Well, most of us in Sweden either listens through Spotify or purchases songs and albums with iTunes or similar services. There are lots of places to buy physical music here in Sweden, but unfortunalety not many stores that focuses specifically on music (meaning that the variety will be limited, only the ones that are bound to sell well be on shelves ).

 

[stagman]

Anyone who disses Bono on this is obviously missing the point, I think he puts his case forward extremly well and using the 'China' example is very smart. If the technology can be used for something so evil it can also be used for something that is good. Also we must never forget about those nations like China, Iran and Columbia that have such evil regimes with censorship stopping thier people from knowing the truth about thier own goverments corruption/evil and grabbing a taste of freedom that is elsewhere.

 

[last unicorn]

Yes, heaven's above, those rowdy whippersnappers! Indie, schmindie! Where do they get off on talken about this college?

I don't understand your post, but I reacted to what 65980 has written and what indra was responding to.

Btw, I'm in my 30s, but most people I know, who are my age or older, don't even know how to "download" music. We just love the good old CD in our hands.

 

[U2girl]

I'd imagine that if Paul McGuinness said this, everyone would be complaining about about what an out of touch, money grubbing monster he is.

People who already think the band are out of touch, money grubbing monsters don't need the ammo, one article won't change that.

 

[trojanchick99]

I don't think one can deny that file sharing has had a huge impact on record sales. That much is true. The younger generation who are usually the ones to drive sales, is primarily getting their music for free, it's easy. To be fair, the recording industry should share some blame, because they didn't do enough early in the game to try to use the new medium to their benefit back in the '90's.

Now, is Bono the best spokesperson for this, no. He's already getting savaged for it, just check out twitter. For many people it's just another reason to hate him. What is interesting is Edge has been saying the same stuff recently, but as per usual, when Bono says it it goes global.

 

[Bones58]

Bono really needs to keep quiet on this subject. He gets people's backs up with the Africa issue already, no need to give them more ammunition.

 

[BVS]

I think Bono was pretty smart about it, he didn't talk specifically about downloading music he's talking about intellectual property in general. Trust me when this starts effecting the movie industry or software companies, you'll all be joining Bono because you'll know your job is at stake next. Soon a big portion of your jobs will have an element of intellectual property and if you aren't proactive you'll be seeing your industries change drastically.

 

[popshopper]

Part of what has been suggested is that ISP's pay copyright holders a tariff which the ISP's will no doubt pass on to the customer. As someone who does not download music, why should I have to pay a tariff for internet access because the music industry fucked up their initial response to . While music/movie downloads are reasonably common I've yet to see any evidence that even a majority of internet users are illegally downloading, yet we'll be expected to contribute to the bottom line of record and film companies by virtue of a tariff?

I have a lot of sympathy with musicians, but bottom line they sold their future (and continue to do so) to an industry which completely messed up the transition to the digital age. The actions and inactions of the music/film industry fostered the rise of wholesale music sharing.

And lets get one thing straight, copyright infringement is not theft, you're not depriving anyone of anything tangible, if you copy music the owner still has the original. Typically copyright infringement is a civil action between two parties, not a criminal act and should remain so. Blunt instruments like bandwidth capping, stopping of particular protocols (I'm talking primarily about Bittorrent which has been a godsend to open sourced software providers) which will affect the majority of users are simply ridiculous.

Bono's a rich rock star who made his money under the old system. Am I particularly bothered that the next generation of musicians might not be so rich, not really. The idea of copyright is a relatively new concept and for almost the total span of human history musicians were paid for performance. Content providers will need to adapt, this is the equivelant of typewriter makers complaining that the word processor is putting them out of business. Not for the first time Bono is talking out of his increasingly large arse.

 

[popshopper]

Anyone who disses Bono on this is obviously missing the point, I think he puts his case forward extremly well and using the 'China' example is very smart. If the technology can be used for something so evil it can also be used for something that is good. Also we must never forget about those nations like China, Iran and Columbia that have such evil regimes with censorship stopping thier people from knowing the truth about thier own goverments corruption/evil and grabbing a taste of freedom that is elsewhere.

Can anyone explain to me why as someone who doesn't download music my internet habits should be monitored, examined and ultimately restrict, and I'll probably end up paying extra to fund said restriction and monitoring. The music industry has had years to get their response to the digital age right, folk were talking about this in the mid 80's. They didn't they let the cat out of the bag, and now they can't put it back in.

Bandwidth is used for lots of things. Playing games, legal downloads. The very protocols the ISP's would have to monitor, prune and eliminate are used for a great many legal applications.