"BAD": The only U2 song in which...

[redhill]

U2 - Bad - YouTube

OK, here is how I hear it:

4:35 - 4:42 (build - up)
increasing tempo with repeated high hat hits

INTO

4:44 - Cymbal crash

* the numbers in the sequences below represent consecutive hits *

4:45 - 5:00 - high hat sequence:
2 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 3
(no discernible pattern)

5:01 - extra / random / quick 2 fills
(slightly off beat - sounds almost like an afterthought as played)

5:02 - 5:04 (approx) - near 2 second pause with no hats
(only time in this ending segment there is such a long pause between high hat hits)

5:05 - 5:45 - high hat sequence:
3 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 1 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 1 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 3 - 2 - 3 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 2
(no discernible pattern)

In addition, a few of the high hat hits (specifically / mostly the "1" hits) are slightly ahead or behind (depending upon your perspective) the beat in this sequence.

It is also worth noting that from 4:45 - 5:00 there are no "1" hits at all as there are in the section after the (nearly) 2 second pause (again - unique in and of itself to this ending section) ends at 5:04.

5:46 - cymbal crash


Well, there you have it - easily the most free form drum pattern and greatest number of random fills Larry has ever laid down (by a long mile) on a U2 album track.

 

[gvox]

 

[BVS]

Now use that exact same approch to AIWIY and Like a Song (to start off with) and you'll find the same thing. I mean if this is your definition of free form then there are plenty of examples.

Like a Song and AIWIY have so many random fills that expert drummers might think they were mistakes.

 

[U2DMfan]

Pray tell the clear tell ;]

Understand, I am making no comment whatsoever about how unique this is.
I don't know if it's solely unique or if it's one of many songs that Larry was doing it on the fly.

My guess is, if not unique, it is one of only a handful. But we all know, especially in the 80's, that they would write songs completely from jam sessions. These days Larry is MUCH more likely to have his drumming down before he sits behind the kit on any kind of 'final take' for the rhythm section.

But the tell is - the cymbals don't come in on time.

So either it's just a fuckup or it's an 'intentional fuckup' (so to speak).
I think the experimental nature of those TUF sessions would lead us to think it was an improv. Besides this - we're talking about the perfectionist in the group. If anyone would have wanted to go back and fix something, it would be Larry. And clearly he didn't. Not only this - there is some hat work after the cymbals come in that might be out of time as well. It certainly sounds like he was 'riffing' on the spot.

But because this place is often like a courtroom, I'll just spell it out for you.

Studio version - "if I could, I would - let it go", the (1) is on the Kick, right around 4:31 and the cymbals don't come in on time. Go back and listen. (1, 2, 3, 4 - the one is right on the kick drum). The cymbals come in between the 3 and 4. That would have NEVER stood to be included on any album after TUF but it stood because of the improvisational nature of the sessions.

Now go and listen to the Wide Awake in America version which was the tour that supported TUF. The cymbals come in right on the (1) and the kick - at around 4:11, right 'in time'.

So yeah, I think you're right that Larry was 'free forming'.
Whether that is unique to this one song...I would guess not but I don't know.

 

[redhill]

Now use that exact same approch to AIWIY and Like a Song (to start off with) and you'll find the same thing. I mean if this is your definition of free form then there are plenty of examples.

Like a Song and AIWIY have so many random fills that expert drummers might think they were mistakes.

Hey BVS,

Thanks for the thoughts. Just listened to both. Frankly, I don't have the time to analyze hit by hit but....I do hear some variation in Like a Song and to a much (upon recent listen) lesser extent AIWIY.

Like a Song was a good example and the kind of insight I was looking for when I started the thread so my apologies to anyone else who mentioned it.

He varies throughout and during the ending sequence.

IMO, AIWIY is not similar to what he does in Bad in that it sounds like (very) occasional fills throughout the song without any extended stretch of time where he plays (at least one drum) in a more free form pattern.

At this point, I am guessing that Bad is perhaps the longest stretch in a song where Larry drums in a more free form way with varied fills (rather than just here and there throughout a song.) It is certainly not the only song in which he does occasional fills as LAS clearly shows.

Another potentially unique characteristic to Bad, from what I am hearing, is that during the random high hat sequences he even has some high hat hits that are either (again, depending upon perspective) before or after the beat (to the point of being completely off beat.) Shocking almost for such a militant drummer. I imagine there is somewhere else that he does this but it is unusual / rare (to say the least) for him.

Anyway, cool to hear your insight. I find it refreshing when he "mixes it up a little" since he is often so regimented (which is, ultimately, a defining characteristic that I enjoy anyway!)

 

[redhill]

Understand, I am making no comment whatsoever about how unique this is.
I don't know if it's solely unique or if it's one of many songs that Larry was doing it on the fly.

My guess is, if not unique, it is one of only a handful. But we all know, especially in the 80's, that they would write songs completely from jam sessions. These days Larry is MUCH more likely to have his drumming down before he sits behind the kit on any kind of 'final take' for the rhythm section.

But the tell is - the cymbals don't come in on time.

So either it's just a fuckup or it's an 'intentional fuckup' (so to speak).
I think the experimental nature of those TUF sessions would lead us to think it was an improv. Besides this - we're talking about the perfectionist in the group. If anyone would have wanted to go back and fix something, it would be Larry. And clearly he didn't. Not only this - there is some hat work after the cymbals come in that might be out of time as well. It certainly sounds like he was 'riffing' on the spot.

But because this place is often like a courtroom, I'll just spell it out for you.

Studio version - "if I could, I would - let it go", the (1) is on the Kick, right around 4:31 and the cymbals don't come in on time. Go back and listen. (1, 2, 3, 4 - the one is right on the kick drum). The cymbals come in between the 3 and 4. That would have NEVER stood to be included on any album after TUF but it stood because of the improvisational nature of the sessions.

Now go and listen to the Wide Awake in America version which was the tour that supported TUF. The cymbals come in right on the (1) and the kick - at around 4:11, right 'in time'.

So yeah, I think you're right that Larry was 'free forming'.
Whether that is unique to this one song...I would guess not but I don't know.

Thank the good lord for rational, analytical, and reasonable people such as yourself.

I appreciate that you were / are able to express some things I was hearing and could not articulate the exact way I wanted to.

On a side note, UF is my favorite U2 album in part, because of the improvisational nature of the sessions.

I hope we can all agree that Bad is a very special U2 song but I'm sure there are some who think it is overrated.

 

[BVS]

At this point, I am guessing that Bad is perhaps the longest stretch in a song where Larry drums in a more free form way with varied fills (rather than just here and there throughout a song.) It is certainly not the only song in which he does occasional fills as LAS clearly shows.

I would say you are probably right when saying its the longest stretch, I think that's probably due to the very simple structure of the song.

Bad is pretty unique in the sense that very few bands could create such a lengthy song out of what is essentially two chords for the most part and still make it intriguing and dynamic. It's not your typical U2 song structure, I think Bono's performance and Larry's drumming are what really take this song to another level.

Personally I think it's one of those types of songs that a lot of bands spend a good chunk of their careers trying create and never really succeed.

 

[U2DMfan]

There may even be mention in U2 By U2 of them basically just making it up on the spot.

They did the same on MOS, which - in my view - is probably considered the consensus best song on NLOTH. Translation - they could stand to do more of that kind of stuff.
Let the flaws remain and keep the magic rather than hammering into a 'perfect pop song'.

But whatever, I just want them to release new music before Star Wars VII comes out.

 

[redhill]

There may even be mention in U2 By U2 of them basically just making it up on the spot.

They did the same on MOS, which - in my view - is probably considered the consensus best song on NLOTH. Translation - they could stand to do more of that kind of stuff.
Let the flaws remain and keep the magic rather than hammering into a 'perfect pop song'.

The exact reason I like Mercy so much (the "leaked" version.) In fact, the revision they were performing on the 360 tour is a perfect example of how they can kill the magic with that very hammer.

I don't have that book, btw, but now my interest is piqued. Do you have it handy?

 

[gvox]

You're late.

 

[PhilsFan]

Studio version - "if I could, I would - let it go", the (1) is on the Kick, right around 4:31 and the cymbals don't come in on time. Go back and listen. (1, 2, 3, 4 - the one is right on the kick drum). The cymbals come in between the 3 and 4. That would have NEVER stood to be included on any album after TUF but it stood because of the improvisational nature of the sessions.

Now go and listen to the Wide Awake in America version which was the tour that supported TUF. The cymbals come in right on the (1) and the kick - at around 4:11, right 'in time'.

So yeah, I think you're right that Larry was 'free forming'.
Whether that is unique to this one song...I would guess not but I don't know.

He's late because he put down the brushes he had been playing before and picked up the sticks.